TechWomen - Ep. 19

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sandy Chen, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, Quentin. [00:00:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. So, Sandy, we've been going back and forth about everything but today's subject, so I'm really curious to kind of get into Tech Women. I want to just kind of start off. I'm sure a lot of people haven't heard of this initiative. You're obviously a mentor with the. With the group. Can you maybe just give me a quick background of what Tech Women is, what you guys do, what the mission it is that you guys are. You guys are after? [00:00:34] Speaker B: Yes, I can. So Tech Women was actually started when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State. And it was an initiative in 2011 as the U.S. department of State's Bureau of Education Cultural Affairs. And it was meant to connect women leaders in STEM from these emerging economies in their countries with their counterparts in the US in particular in Silicon Valley. And what it was meant to do was really address underrepresented women in tech, foster more global understanding around that, and of course, support women's leadership in these STEM fields. And that program has grown to over 22 countries participating. And as of this last year, there were 108 emerging leaders, what we call, and women delegates who came to participate this past year in the program. [00:01:29] Speaker A: That's really fascinating. So I really love this. I think when we met last time, I kind of expressed that I feel as if there are so much untapped potential globally. Right. Due to economic, economic, you know, lack of resources or just representation. You know, obviously there's cultural, you know, setbacks for a lot of people, particularly women in different parts of the region, I guess, like where. How did this even come to be? What's the ultimate benefit for someone like Hillary Clinton to want to establish something like this? Is it more charitable? Is it something where we're trying to bring these people over and they can be a part of the U.S. help the, you know, the individuals in Silicon Valley, like kind of what's the driving force behind it? [00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, at. At its simplest, I think it's just more promoting that economic growth, growth and the innovation by empowering these women who are already honestly, rock stars in the roles that they are in in their own countries, but making even better for the struggles that they and the challenges that they have to deal with on a global level. So reach their full potential, if you will. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Gotcha. And is it just stem or is there any sort of, like, ARM for business or other areas? Is it just particularly stem? [00:02:50] Speaker B: It is in stem. But, you know, though, those Are the backgrounds they're struggling with the same things that we all struggle with here, women in our careers. And that. That does have to do with the way that they're looked at through a business lens or challenges in career growth, because they are women. [00:03:12] Speaker A: Okay, gotcha. How are you finding these individuals? Because I was looking on your website, and there are some, like, third world countries that you guys are working with. I can't imagine that there are STEM programs out there that are. I mean, I don't know. I kind of. My idea is that you guys are going out and finding them yourselves. Are there already STEM programs out there that highlight these women's talents that are already existing, and then you just go and pluck them and then kind of bring them to the program? How are you finding them? Because that's kind of interesting to me. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah. So this. This program, although it was an initiative of the U.S. department of State, it's run by what's called the IIE. It's an international kind of education nonprofit that runs the programming of it. And the way that they're choosing the applicants is there's already kind of chosen Countries by the U.S. department of State from Middle East, Africa, Central Asia, mostly. That's where those countries are and where those emerging leaders stem from. But they go through a pretty rigorous application process, and what they're looking for is it runs the gamut at people that are already showing potential in the STEM fields that they're in. A lot of these women are very highly educated. They have PhDs, they are already physicians, and they're already having initiatives that they've kicked off in their own communities. So it's more about how do we make that even better by giving them exposure to programming here in the US or maybe the way that things are done in the US that might spark innovation and ideas for pivoting what they could do in their own communities. So there are thousands that apply, but only around 100 that make it into the program. And they come here for around five to six weeks in the US to go through programming. But the way that they're chosen is actually mentors like me. People in IIE will go through all of those applications to kind of say, do you meet these criteria for meeting potential and what you would bring to your community and what would make you a standout in the tech women program. [00:05:33] Speaker A: Okay. All right. I have a lot to break down here, and I got a lot of questions for you. First of all, what is the criteria that you're looking for? Is it the same for Each mentor or are you able to have a little bit more freedom in who you're choosing and why you're choosing them? Like what's the criteria that you're looking for specifically? [00:05:49] Speaker B: Yeah, so for me, I don't, I actually don't participate in the choosing process. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:05:54] Speaker B: But I am a mentor that once people are chosen then, you know, I might help them out with kind of what kind of mentor I am. And there's a couple different kinds which we can go over if you're interested. But I'm not actually part of the choosing process unless I've volunteered to go through application season. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Okay. I definitely want to know what kind of mentor you are because that was my very next question. So there's, there's different types of mentors. Can you maybe give me an idea of what you do and then some other ideas of what other mentors you. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Sure. So for the last couple years running I've been what's called an innovation mentor. Innovation mentor helps these emerging leaders to work on projects that are based, project based work for their own communities. So each year the respective countries are tasked to complete a project using their skills, their background and their networks to bring to fruition something that is going to help their communities. Something that maybe they deal with on a day to day basis that we may not know about. And in particular for girls and women using their background. And so any finalists as they go through this sort of project based work are granted seed funding to kick off that project and they have check ins with the U.S. department of State to see what their progress has been like. So I've been an innovation mentor for Tajikistan in the past where they kicked off a project or had an idea on doing bridge loans for women entrepreneurs. Last year I was an innovation mentor for Palestine. They came up with kind of safe games for kids through a phone application that can help address mental trauma that they're dealing with. And then most recently this cohort that just left in October was Uzbekistan and they were working on an application to help give early access for sexual education and girls there. Very religious community, it's a Muslim community and there's a stigma around sexual education for girls. But unfortunately there is a fallout if you don't get that sort of education early. So that's what I do. And there are other types of mentors, like professional mentors where you can, you're paired with someone to do on the job training, maybe at their work site. We have a few, I work at Salesforce, we have a few. Usually they're software Engineers that have like mentors there and then there's cultural mentors who get to take them around to the local sites to get to see San Francisco, Silicon Valley and then we have some in Chicago as well because it's their first time in the US For a lot of them. [00:08:56] Speaker A: Are you kind of hands on with them or are you more of a guide as a mentor? [00:09:03] Speaker B: Both. So hands on. And that we will be working together. We'll be working together in person, in room, kind of help guide them through what brainstorming should be like, things you should think about all the way to eventually, if you were pitching this, which it gets to sort of a three minute pitch that the team has to give on their idea and what the impact of their idea is going to be. You're guiding them along the way, but you're not necessarily giving them ideas. [00:09:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:34] Speaker B: You're just helping them in the brainstorming process and what your business case should include for your project. How are you going to keep funding going after you get the seed funding? Why would this make an impact right away in your community and how will it do that for years to come? How do you keep it going, all of those things? [00:09:55] Speaker A: Gotcha. Okay, that makes total sense because I would imagine that these, these young women are not used to like the formality of having to go through, you know, pitching an idea and then raising the funding. And then once you get the funding, that's a whole nother can of worms in of itself. You've got the money, what do you do? How do you manage it? How do you make sure that it's going in the right places? Do you work with them after the whole spiel or is it just like, good luck, you did a great job, kind of. What's the. [00:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah, good luck. No, I'm kidding. No, actually the tech webbing community is a really strong community. We have an alumni group that we're all part of and we're often on WhatsApp together, checking in to see how others are doing. There's some follow up. For example, the group has to give kind of final, final things on their project because this year they're doing some additional seed funding for other projects. So had a little bit of back and forth with my group in the past couple weeks, but I'm also still in touch with others that I've met on delegation trips that I've done in their countries. Just last night I was texting with someone who just had a baby, so I got to hear about how she's doing. Love that and she's from Kazakhstan, so shout out, Gohar. [00:11:14] Speaker A: That's awesome. I love that. I've always grown up in an international environment. My family used to host international student from around the world. I lived in France for a year and got my mba. I was the only American in the class, which I absolutely loved, because it just. It really enriches your experience when you're around people who have different thoughts and different opinions and different ideas and different cultures, and, you know, they look at you in different ways that you're not used to, you know, being, you know, I guess, judged for. For certain aspects. I remember when I first went, Trump had gotten elected for the very first time. It was. We had just gotten. Obama was gone, and it was Trump's first year. And I can't tell you how much flack I got from everybody in the classroom. And I didn't. I didn't. What am I going to do? You know? But in either case, I just really love the international community. I think it's wonderful. And they're such good people. And one thing I've learned is we're all the same. You know, they all have such good personalities and sense of humors, and no one's different. It's just we're all human. So I love that. [00:12:13] Speaker B: It is true. [00:12:14] Speaker A: You do. You get to go to travel these. These places. Like, have you been to Kazakhstan? Have you been to Uzbekistan? Have you been to these. These. These individual countries? [00:12:22] Speaker B: Yes. So each year, there are two countries that are chosen for delegation trips. [00:12:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:30] Speaker B: And they also have to apply as a country to say 1. That they can uphold programming to. To have one, and that they have the networking and the wherewithal to get something like that done. So I've been to Kazakhstan, and I've been to Tajikistan, and I'm hopeful that this year, maybe I'll get to go on the next delegation trip, which usually happens in the spring. [00:12:53] Speaker A: Okay, the second country that you're saying, I've never heard of it. What is it? [00:12:58] Speaker B: Tajikistan. You got to learn all your stunts. Quintin, pull out a map. There's a lot of Stan countries. I thought I was Uzbekistan. Tajikistan. You gotta. You gotta learn, Emma. [00:13:11] Speaker A: I thought I was pretty good at geography, but I've never heard of that. I'm assuming that's. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Me neither, to be honest. Me neither, until I was part of the Tech Women program, pulled up a map and said, oh, this is Central Asia. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:13:24] Speaker B: Something we don't often learn about in school or otherwise. [00:13:28] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's. It's definitely under the radar. That's hilarious. Now we, we keep kind of touching on these women getting funding for their businesses. Is it funding from the US Are they getting funding from their own country? Are they getting funding from other investors around the world? Or like, how does that whole thing work? Because that's really interesting. [00:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah, honestly, for the project based work that I was talking about or that particular project, they get seed funding to start and that comes from the US but ongoing. This is where it really matters. What their business case is going to be is do you have sponsorship and how are you going to keep this? Yeah, how are you going to keep this going? And that's going to be based on their network and sponsorship that they're going to get to keep the programs running. [00:14:15] Speaker A: Gosh, that's so fascinating because now we're kind of introducing the element of, I don't want to say politics, but you know, you're going beyond STEM at this point. You might have a really cool idea, but how do you get people to buy into it? How do you get people to continue to buy into it? Where are they seeing the value in what you're bringing? From a monetary perspective, the seed funding that they get from the US I'm assuming that's some sort of like grant that they don't have to pay back. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Or it's just a grant. Yeah, you got it. [00:14:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:43] Speaker B: And a one time, one time grant to make it happen. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Gotcha. Okay, so they're kind of we're sparking the soon to be fire, hopefully in a good way. Then I'm assuming they have to go find private investors. I mean, I would assume every situation is different. So maybe it's like, you know, in this particular situation there's another grant that they can leverage from their government. Or maybe there is. It's such a good idea and there is monetary value associated with it. They can get private funding, but like kind of. What's your general take? [00:15:11] Speaker B: Yes, it's a, it's a mix. And it depends on what the project is. It runs the gamut. You know, kind of like what you were saying. Different countries are at different economic levels. [00:15:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:23] Speaker B: Different levels in which they have access to resourcing. Some of them, some of the projects are as simple as we need to get water to the second floor of a hospital. And the one hospital that we have in this village, that's going to be a very different project than someone who's like funding women entrepreneurs for banking because they obviously have very different resourcing than this other country who's Like, I'm just trying to get water to this hospital, or I'm just trying to, you know, help women in open air hospitals survive when they have a baby. So very, very different. But some of them have dependencies on private funding, and some of them may work with their own governments to sustain funding based on their initiative. That's going to kind of help a bigger problem with the country as a whole. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. I never even thought about things as simple as getting water to the second story of a hospital. I mean, that's really int. Right about building an application for sex education. But then there's also people who just need, you know, basic resources and how are you gonna, you know, improve the quality of that, of that situation? So that's really fascinating. You mentioned something about working with a, a girl in Palestine last year. Is that right? Can you give me a little bit more information? This is really fascinating because. What an unique situation to be in. [00:16:59] Speaker B: What a very unique situation to be in. Yeah. Two years ago, right when the Tech Women program was happening, that's when the Hamas attack happened in Israel while the Palestinian people were here in Tech Women. And actually they were very afraid to take the stage because they were feeling some angst about this being a US Based program. They're out of their home country in here, and this terrorist group, you know, from Palestine had just attacked Israel. So it was time for Pitch Day. And it was, it happened right before Pitch Day. And they were feeling a kind of way to take the stage. And what they were surprised about is that everyone supported them. Like, we know that you are not this organization. We support you and what you are trying to do for women in your community. So that was a heavy. That was a pretty heavy time. And then come the next year, Sandy is assigned to Team Palestine. And so I had lots of questions myself going, whoa, are they going to make it here? Like, are they even going to make it here? And then how. And what, how should I approach this? And we're usually partnered. We usually have two to three mentors per country. And I had to go learn a lot of things myself about the way that things ran in Palestine, things that I should be aware of personally or to make them feel safe when they're here and kind of address the elephant in the room of I know what's happening. We're not going to ignore that. Also use this time to your advantage for what you're doing in the program. So I still keep in touch with my team. Again, we have our own WhatsApp group and every once in a while we'll do a reach out, I think, to them. Sometimes they're in this bubble and they think no one in the world knows what's going on in Palestine. But when I'm traveling internationally and I'm somewhere else, I'll send them a picture and go, look, I'm in Mexico City. Check it out. Like, there's people out here supporting you in Mexico City. And they're like, who would have thought? [00:19:27] Speaker A: That's crazy. [00:19:28] Speaker B: I mean, yes, it's been great. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I, I really. I really feel for. For those, those women. Right. Because they're, they're in a situation that they can't control and they're obviously really brilliant and they're trying to do something that is going to better their community and better their, you know, their, their lives and the people that they love. And they probably feel very isolated, you know, from a global perspective and everything else. But it's great that you guys have their back. And gosh, like, I can't imagine the amount of pressure to feel on the day after, you know, the, the attack happened. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Like, I mean, yes, I don't. [00:20:11] Speaker A: I mean, I don't want to get political with this by any means, but I just can't imagine, like, how much pressure they felt and like, just the overall feeling of being judged and, you know, are we going to get booed off the stage because of who we are? Does what we're. Is what we're solving? Does that even matter at this point? Like, all this? And they've obviously been working super hard and diligently to, you know, present themselves and give it the best representation possible. And now that's like almost like a second thought, you know, and they're probably thinking about their own family at that point. It's probably not just themselves. It's probably. Probably worried about their, their children or their husband or whoever else is in their lives that matter to them, because, gosh, I mean, God, what a. What a significant event to have to deal with. But wonderful that they came back last year. They came back last year? [00:20:57] Speaker B: Yeah. This past year, they come back. Yeah. And I think I, I mean, this. It's one of those things, like, again, yes, there is this political presence think of, and then there is, like, when you're with someone one on one, and the human side of, I know you are not representing this and just so, you know, like, I support you and you are on a great path, was really important for them and then important for me to again do my homework to address it and I was very grateful to be paired with another individual, another mentor who could educate me on a lot of like, here's what they go through on a day to day basis. And even if they're from the west bank, this is still very, very tough for what they're going through. And yeah, there were, there were a couple that were stuck that were in Gaza the year that, that happened and were separated from their families. So, you know, just have to come with a open heart and human aspect to what's going on and try and meet in the middle there to put some political things aside to say this is the mission of the program and we're all tech women together. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I, and I, and I really just want to emphasize the point that I made earlier. We're all the same people. You know, the thing that differentiates us unfortunately is our governments and they're the problem, not the individuals of each country. So good on them and good for them to have that level of resilience and just tenacity to say, you know what, this is the situation I'm in, I can't change it. I'm going to keep moving forward. I'm on a mission to better people's lives and just keep going for it. So without crying, kudos to those individuals. That's fantastic. Truly, truly. What was it that they were working on? What was the project that they were working on? If you can share. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Palestine was creating a phone app that was meant to be kind of safe games for kids, but really addressing mental health trauma that they were going through as a kid when they don't have anyone to talk to or kind of what would be something to do their own almost. You know, we do this with each other at work. Right. Where it's like, give me a red, yellow, green. Where you at today? Think of it something akin to that, but for kids who have no one to talk to. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Because the situation that they're in. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So this was, they had been working on this before October 7th. How has things changed with the just desecration of their infrastructure? I mean I can't imagine that that that helped anything. I'm sure the infrastructure is just has made things harder. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Yeah, well, this was for my particular team and that was their pitch. I don't think the project ever got funding, but that was what they, that was their idea for a project. Because near and dear to their hearts, of course. Gotcha for what's going on. [00:24:05] Speaker A: Okay. Well I'm rooting for them if they need an extra voice out there to scream at the investors and the seed funders. I'll. I'll do that for you. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Yeah. I think what's most surprising is that they're always surprised to see others in other countries supporting them. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:26] Speaker B: Or even when they came here, they were surprised to see people with Palestinian flags or supporting them. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I. I don't know. I. Again, like, I just think that people are. I think we're too consumed with what we see on TV and on our phones. But when you. You can say whatever you want behind the screen, you can think whatever behind. You know, think whatever you want behind the screen. Go talk to somebody. And I'm telling you right now, everything that you thought about their culture or who they are as individuals, that melts away. Yeah, we're all this. We're all the same. I mean, truly, we all have empathy. We all have, you know, hearts and compassion. We all care about the same things, which is our family being loved and all that good stuff. So it's sad that they have to feel like people have a particular stigma about them, but it's great that you have a community that's supportive and, you know, it shows them that. The love that they deserve and, you know, all that good stuff. All right, let's move on to more positive things. I'm going to cry if we keep going down this path. [00:25:27] Speaker B: It's still positive. We're still in touch. They're doing well. [00:25:31] Speaker A: Good, good, good, good. And, you know, honestly, that app sounds like it could be. I mean, if they needed an app like that now more than ever, I would assume. You know what I mean? So that's wonderful. Okay. The best project you've been a part of, the most significant project you've ever been a part of, the project that you are maybe the most proud of or you feel like it's going to have the biggest impact. Talk to me. What is it? [00:25:55] Speaker B: Oh, man, that's a hard one, because you're making me, like, choose between. It's almost like, choose your favorite child. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Well, how many children do you have? [00:26:06] Speaker B: That's the question. How many children? I know. I have two. So, you know, like, someone is. Peace out if you know. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Well, how about you give me a couple that you have in mind? You don't have to pick your favorite. Yeah, the ones that stand out that I think are really. You think are really significant. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll tell you, I think the. And it's not necessarily maybe anything that I've worked on, which I think everything that I'm going to be Biased, of course, for my team, Uzbekistan, Palestine and Tajikistan would be like, yeah, these are the best. But stepping out. I'll tell you, some of the projects that were brought to fruition were really awesome and still thriving. There was one project and I'm going to forget the name of the country, it's in Africa, but it was called Farmbox and it was to get localized farmers to put together their food to deliver to local, local folks for less waste growing the local economy. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Love it. [00:27:11] Speaker B: And yeah, it was a wonderful idea. The other was the hospital that I was talking about. This was also country in Africa and it was, it sounds like the simplest thing, but it's the craziest thing. What you could take for granted in that the second floor of a hospital didn't have access to water. That's. So it was all about getting funding to then build something to get that access to the second floor of the hospital was another great one. One of the pitches that I heard, I think came from Algeria this year and that was also to help again kind of local farmers and vendors to get to scale up what they could sell to everyone. That was high commodity and that was olive oil. It was dried fruits and nuts and those type things where people usually just go buy from these farmers via word of mouth. Farmers aren't. The farmers weren't business minded people of like, oh, you know, great, my grandma showed up and I'm going to give her this many vats of olive oil or whatever it might have been. But they were, they came up with an idea to help themselves scale. So it's just really interesting, the innovation that runs the gamut where some are very technical, where they're immediately thinking of maybe an online application and others are as simple as what can we do for the community that we see as a problem, but simply giving or getting access to resources. [00:28:50] Speaker A: Yeah. How often the example of the water to the second floor of the hospital, how often are they getting the seed funding? Is that pretty, Is that, is that easier for them? One time. [00:29:07] Speaker B: One time. But for them it was simply we're going to make a water tower. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:12] Speaker B: We're going to build this system. These are hardware engineers. They are, you know, structural engineers, which was great. And then this is where we're going to source the water to do it. [00:29:22] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:24] Speaker B: So it wouldn't have required maybe ongoing things, but definitely huge impact for that community. For the one hospital. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Totally. Totally. Yeah. Because the reason why I ask is because when I'm thinking about this organization as a whole, I'm thinking of like like technology. Right. I'm thinking like maybe like, maybe like scientific breakthroughs. Maybe like, you know, if we're going to use Africa as an example, something that's going to help stop malaria or something along those lines, you know what I mean? I don't think of a water tower that's going to help ultimately get fresh, clean water to a hospital, which I mean, by all means, that should just be a human right? You know, in 2025, as far as I'm concerned, no matter where you live. So I don't, I'm not really thinking about it from that perspective. So I was really, really fascinating. [00:30:05] Speaker B: Engineering and math comes in. That's that. Yeah, that's the other part. Yeah. [00:30:10] Speaker A: Okay, well, I'm not good at math or engineering, so I guess I don't even think like that. [00:30:15] Speaker B: That's okay. You just, you make friends with people. [00:30:17] Speaker A: Who are what you know, it's who you know. And that's, that's right. I'm sticking to that story. What, have you had any, has there been any pitches where you were like, oh my God, like the whole world could benefit if these individuals get the seed funding. Like, is it like, is there anything to just absolutely like groundbreaking this, this is amazing. A plus, let's get it type of pitches? [00:30:48] Speaker B: You know, I gosh, it's hard to say on a world level because a lot of these have to do with how are they bettering something that's happening in their community. What is impactful is to be someone like me who's living in the US and it humbles you and to do more of a self inventory of what you should be grateful for and what you have access to from some of the ideas that are brought to fruition. So what I would wish is that everyone could see pitch Day live, that everyone could see the type things that these women are trying to solve in their communities that we oftentimes take for granted. Water sources, again, are a big one. Or that there are girls in the village that are assigned to walk, you know, a few miles a day to carry water back every day and they're being attacked on this route. How do we solve for these girls being assaulted on their way to get water that's needed for their families. Whoa, that is a huge, that's a huge thing to just take in personally to go, okay, something we never think about on a day to day basis. So I would say if there was something globally, it would just be to have more awareness around being grateful for what you have in your day to day life. But also being aware of what's going on in other people's communities and what they have to deal with on a day to day basis. [00:32:28] Speaker A: I am a huge believer in travel for a lot of reasons. Right. I mean just getting out and seeing the world's a beautiful thing to do and, but also you really learn about how lucky we are in the U.S. despite all the issues and you know, just some inconveniences, I guess you could say that we deal with on a day to day is nothing compared to what other people are going through. And so I'm a huge believer that just going out and seeing the world changes you fundamentally for a lot of different reasons, if not just because it'll instill a lot of gratitude. So I love that. Why don't you pitch to tech women that you should air these pitches online and document it? Sandy. [00:33:13] Speaker B: I mean, I would. Again, this is a US government run program, so you can take that with a great. I don't know how open they would be. Yeah, I don't know how open they would be to something like that. So we'd have to see. [00:33:28] Speaker A: They need a social media. We, our government's already so big we might as well just have like a department of social media. And then they can, you know, they can take that up, take that. [00:33:38] Speaker B: But those projects are shared, at least the ones that are, that win. And then through stories like this, right. Where we can share what we heard through tech. [00:33:48] Speaker A: Totally. You obviously follow up and have these, you know, relationships with these individuals over a long period of time. I know you've been with techwoman for, was it three years? Almost three years. [00:33:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. What, what type of ripple effect does some of these projects at least that you've been able to kind of gather have in the community. Does it just solve that one problem? Does it motivate the rest of the community to, to try and innovate and, and you know, grow and, and be a better version of themselves? Like, are there any stories where it's like, yo, they changed the village and now everybody's a farmer and you know, the, the whole nine. Like kind of. What ripple effect have you seen? [00:34:30] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I've. So I think I mentioned this earlier. I've been on two delegation trips to Kazakhstan and the one you hadn't heard of, Tajikistan. Another stun. And really, I guess for me, I love seeing the program themes that they're learning about here come to life in their own communities that they're running programs basically kind of copy paste. What was Here to expose young girls and other women that weren't part of the Tech Women program, to get that in their own communities. They do things like, I don't know if you've ever heard of this. It's called I am Remarkable. It's a program to help women deal with women and men deal with imposter syndrome. Having TED talks on women's empowerment, encouraging young girls with what's possible. Robotics is another big one that a lot of younger kids are interested in. And what's nice is to see them kind of copy, repeat that. And a lot of the Tech Women program has also been featured in the press in their respective countries. And sometimes big time press, like equivalent to like what we would say CNN would be, you know, over there, it's on the big networks. And so it creates a sense of pride for the community that these delegates who are part of this Tech Women program are representing their country and now look what they're coming back and doing for our community. So those are kind of some of the effects that I see. The projects are to get them thinking about working together. Remember that just because they're from the same country doesn't mean they know each other. They don't. They're strangers and they're coming from all parts of their country to come together, to suddenly try and think of what's the like thing that we could do for our country based on our backgrounds. But what's great is it just sparks motivation and this idea that we could take something off. And even if this program or project doesn't work out that we had an idea for, we now have this very strong network to bring it to life. Bring something else to life. If it's not this, it could be something else. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I think sense of pride is a big one. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:01] Speaker A: Like if you, if you live in a small country and you see, you know, somebody who's local to that country, you do something that's extraordinary, that just gives you such a sense of pride, you know what I mean? It just really like motivates you and you just, you feel really, really good about, you know, where you come from. And again, it sounds like a lot of the places that you work with are second third world countries. And so it's kind of hard to, to hang on to, you know, oh, I'm, I'm so lucky to live here and I'm so happy to be here. And we have all these grateful things. Meanwhile the US is over there and obviously, you know, they, they, A lot of countries paint the Us in this, you know, brilliant light. And for good reasons in, in certain instances. Right. We're very lucky. But then how do you feel about yourself? Like, are you, are you excited to wake up and be like, oh, I'm from Uzbekistan. But when you see somebody from your own community doing it and you want to latch on and then that motivates you and that excites you and then maybe that sparks a new idea and you think to yourself, well, if that person can do it, I can do it. And then that just kind of, you know, again creates a ripple effect. So I think that's. [00:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah, you're talking about representation. So when you see it represented, then, you know, it can be achievable. You know, it can be real. [00:38:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:12] Speaker B: See another woman, you see another girl doing something like that, then it instills something in, in you to be motivated that you could do the same. [00:38:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think particularly for women. Right. Like a lot of these countries I would imagine probably are like, well, you know, the male dominate the, the room, you know, so to speak. And as a woman, you have, you know, particular role or whatever. But when you see these women out there doing these things and you know, if you're a young girl and you, you aspire to, to be more than just, you know, a wife or whatever, that really can be super profound. So I love that. That's wonderful. [00:38:48] Speaker B: That's wonderful. [00:38:49] Speaker A: When you working with second and third world countries, what obstacles, typical obstacles are you facing after the fact, if any? [00:39:00] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, I think the way to think about it is that globally all women face some of the same challenges. There's gender bias and discrimination, there's inequality in your pay, there's lack of representation, which we just talked about, imposter syndrome, lack of career development because there's limited access to mentors or sponsors or funding, as you were alluding to earlier, or even work life balance opportunities. The difference is it can be on a much greater level when you're coming from these other countries or when you're in those other countries. There's the reality of the day to day life. And you know, for example, you might be the CEO of your own company, your woman, and you'd also be expected to be a stay at home mom once you have a family and let that go. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:58] Speaker B: Even if you're the breadwinner of the family. [00:40:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:02] Speaker B: Type thing. Or you could be the CEO of your company, but if you're hosting all the rest of your peers and males, you will be the one to host them. And make sure that you're cooking and cleaning and doing those type things. And those are things where you're just like, what? Doesn't compute for me. But that's what I mean. When they're dealing with it on a different level or even just cultural respect, things of, you never talk out of turn for someone that is above you in the hierarchy, in the organization. So you're never going to speak if they're speaking first or you don't. You know, just certain things at a cultural level that you're having to deal with. That would be different for someone like me in Silicon Valley who's encouraged to maybe speak up in a meeting but have the undertones of like, maybe you shouldn't. For them it's very different. Of no, you don't. [00:41:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:00] Speaker B: So how do they deal with that? [00:41:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I could imagine that that's, that's really challenging for them to balance. But I would also assume that a lot of these women are already very strong minded to a certain degree. Like if they already have the courage to step outside of the norm and participate in this initiative to begin with, they probably have the courage to stand their ground when they need to. At least that's what I would for sure. [00:41:25] Speaker B: Or they didn't get where they were by being the quiet one or going with the norm. Yeah, that's true. [00:41:32] Speaker A: Exactly. Are there any issues with the governments themselves once you give them the seed funding and then they've got to go and use the money to go build these projects? Like is their government involved at all? Is it just the US kind of overseeing it, like, kind of. What, what insight do you have in terms of that? [00:41:55] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I don't think that their governments are involved, but many of them will involve the government or a government organization to say this is working. We got the seed funding and now we would love to get a grant from you to continue it. [00:42:08] Speaker A: Gotcha. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Like, here's what happened. But we may ask you for a government grant because this is going to help the community as a whole. Right. It's going to help our economy. [00:42:19] Speaker A: Right. Like, because there's a difference between the, the, the water tower as opposed to like an application that everyone in the country could potentially access. Right. Like we're talking about educating an entire country around sexual education. I mean, that's going to have a profound effect on the entire population. That's not just like the one community that needs clean water. It's everyone's being influenced to a certain degree how they should act, how they should think and that sort of thing. So I would imagine in some governments, obviously most governments are authoritarian in nature, unfortunately. They kind of want to. They kind of want to step in and be like, okay, well let's. We need to oversee kind of what you guys are doing and you know, does this is real. Does this fit into our, you know, our religious culture? Does this fit into, you know, what we expect women to, how they should behave and in that sort of thing. [00:43:08] Speaker B: So yeah, you're right on. And you're thinking of the right things. And it's why we encourage starting small or within a certain community. Or start with this set of schools or in one school first, pilot it. Like, use this as your pilot, take those learnings, then talk about growth instead of trying to go, let me solve this for the entire country right now. Yeah, you'll have more success in piloting something and then growing it over time. [00:43:37] Speaker A: Okay. [00:43:37] Speaker B: And that's what they're encouraged to do. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And I think starting small, obviously this is their first time, like starting a business. You don't want to give them a bazillion dollars to go and try and figure out how to run the business. I think starting small, it makes the most sense, you know? [00:43:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. [00:43:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because then they can kind of, they learn how to scale as opposed to just having all of the money at once. Yeah, that's great. [00:44:05] Speaker B: And you want it to be self sustaining. So to think about those things beyond your grant and beyond that, just like any company. [00:44:14] Speaker A: Totally. [00:44:15] Speaker B: That you'd be starting. [00:44:16] Speaker A: Totally. How long do you work with these individuals? Do you ever just let them go off and spread your wings like you're on your own now or you're constantly working with them? Is it like a work in progress, like kind of how do you interact with these people? Or is it kind of just, you know, sometimes we work with them for a year, sometimes it's four years. Yeah. [00:44:38] Speaker B: Most of the time it's through the programming that's here. But we oftentimes, as I said, stay in touch because the network is pretty strong. So for example, if there's past alumni that I've worked with, I will meet up with them when they come visit the Bay Area and we'll go out to dinner. [00:44:57] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:44:58] Speaker B: You know, or we'll go, go do that. And respectively, when anyone else is visiting those, like, countries, oftentimes they are visiting other tech women. [00:45:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:10] Speaker B: In those communities. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Gotcha. I love that. Is there any program for men? Is there a male tech men organization that's funded by the government or is this just particularly for. For the women? And I'll let you take your drink so you can answer this with. Yeah, excellent. [00:45:30] Speaker B: Yeah, there is. This one is for women in particular. But I will say when we go on delegation trips, it's open to both men and women. So oftentimes, like if it is a community based event and we're sort of doing workshops, which we often will do, and then the community is invited. It's women and men. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. Because again, like, I kind of alluded to this at the beginning. There's just so much untapped potential in the world. And I think there's so many brilliant minds out there that could literally have the spark that changes everything for everybody. You know what I mean? And it's just granted, if they live in the middle of the jungle, how could they get their message out? It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. Like, to me that doesn't make any difference. I think the idea of having tech women is great because like, I think what we were talking about earlier, they're just already, I guess, oppressed more so than men. Right. They, they have to. There's just a certain, you know, expectation of women and where they fit in many of these societies. Whereas men can be much more bold. And even if you're shy, if you have a good idea and you speak up, people will listen to you more wholeheartedly. Right. But just the idea of, of getting more people involved in the global community to make everyone's lives better, I think that's just, that's, that's amazing. So I love that. [00:46:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think you're hitting it with the untapped potential part when you are living in an oppressed community. And even if you're one of the most brightest women that have great ideas, we're looking at untapped potential and what they could bring to the community, the economy and their society by giving them a voice or platform or the means to build up these soft skills to be able to do so. [00:47:25] Speaker A: Totally. Okay, if, let's say there's a project, do you guys ever let somebody in? And I know that you don't always, you're not always a part of the approval process. But is there ever an instance where you're letting them join the program because they need access to resources, like, say, like a lab or, you know, more high tech equipment or something along those lines? Or are some of the. Are all these ideas already pretty much flushed out for the most part? And it's just a matter of kind of fine tuning them. [00:47:56] Speaker B: These projects actually don't start and don't come until you're already in the program and you're here, and they start a couple weeks after you're here. And then we come together and work on this project. So it's not a preset idea that you come with once you're chosen in the delegation. Oftentimes those emerging leaders aren't even meeting for the first time until they're here. [00:48:17] Speaker A: In the US that's crazy. So they. [00:48:19] Speaker B: So, okay, they may know or they might be able to email each other if they can see, and some of them do, but they're coming kind of from all parts of their country and meeting for the first time when they land here in the U.S. okay, so. [00:48:33] Speaker A: It'S like, it's just a bunch of, like, brilliant women from the same country, and then you put them in a room together and then they say, all right, what can we do? What can we build? [00:48:44] Speaker B: You got it. Oh, that's like, oh, you're a. You are, you know, I don't know, a molecular pharmacology person. You are a tech person. You're in finance. You're in, like, it could. That could run the gamut of backgrounds. [00:48:59] Speaker A: That's fascinating. [00:49:00] Speaker B: What's something common that's happening in your community that you think is a problem for women, girls, the community, and using your backgrounds, what do you think you could solve that would actually not only get the funding, but could be sustainable based on your networks and your backgrounds? [00:49:17] Speaker A: That is so fascinating. I love that. Well, that just opens a whole nother can of worms. I have a million questions now. Are you a part of the process with them, or do you kind of step in once they've kind of got their bearings, they've met each other, they kind of have an idea of what direction they want to go. Maybe they have a couple of ideas they want to go down, and then you step in and say, okay, well, you know, that's great that you want to solve that disease, but how are we going to get that done? We have to be a little bit more realistic type of thing. [00:49:47] Speaker B: You. Yeah, you got it. So some will have ideas, or they might have already discussed it, you know, after being here for a couple weeks. Some don't. I would say it. Each group, it depends on the group. If you think about it again, they're strangers, so they haven't collaborated or worked together before. Secondly, they're all very strong women. [00:50:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:09] Speaker B: So sometimes even culturally, it's more about. Okay, you know, we have to come to an agreement. And don't take offense if your idea wasn't chosen. Remember that this, you're brainstorming and you're choosing ideas based on the betterment of your community in the country. Not the choosing of the best idea isn't what gets you the win. The win is, is you have a great idea that's going to help the community. So sometimes it's just navigating through that and the brainstorming, like you said, being realistic. [00:50:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:41] Speaker B: Like you can't solve everything for your whole country right now, but with this seed funding and with your backgrounds, what is realistic about what you can do in the next six months, the next year, and what will sustain? [00:50:53] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, that makes total sense because I'm thinking like on a grandiose scale, this is kind of where my mind goes. But I would imagine you kind of have to wrangle them in like, hey, look, guys, that's a cool idea, but you know, that's, that's like a 10 year project that you're talking about. [00:51:08] Speaker B: Or you need buy in from a whole lot of entities where you get buy in from that. [00:51:12] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. What it do you have to sometimes play? I don't want to say babysitter, but do you have to kind of like be the adult in the room sometimes? Because I would imagine that when you're having a group of individuals, you kind of just touched on it a second ago. There's a different personality type of women that live in Eastern Europe as opposed to Southeast Asia, you know what I mean? Like, they're just going to be completely two different personality types. And so if you get a room full of, you know, people from Eastern Europe, I would imagine some of those girls are just, they're just, they're tough women and they have pride and they have ego and they want their idea to win and they want to be the loudest voice in the room. And then maybe in, you know, in an Asian country, they're a little bit more timid, a little bit more shy. Maybe you kind of have to draw out some of the ideas out of them and get them to kind of speak up. Do you ever have to play kind of like the, the adult in the room, so to speak? [00:52:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Not even just the job, you know, sometimes it's. These are things that we deal with in our work environment too, you know, all the time where you're like, all right, we're gonna have to do this some work project together and we have different personalities in the room. And so sometimes it's just sharing that, like, being very open about, hey, when we went through this, you know, when I was working here or with my team, when we went through this, here's one of the ways that we can be fair and transparent about the ideas that we bring. When you're brainstorming, we're not going to shoot that down. We're brainstorming. Turn off the. This isn't going to work. Turn on the. We're going to put as many ideas down on paper. Okay, now let's find common themes. You know, so it's sort of like facilitating. Helping to facilitate the process, but also refocusing folks back on the task at hand. And that it doesn't have to do with you personally. It has to do with what you're trying to do as a group and. And for your community and the outcome of it. So, yeah, they're all adults. They're all have strong points of view and personalities, and sometimes that can be the hard part. And some teams, they're already collaborating and thinking on things, and others, it takes more like one on one connection or like, let's get that off the table and go meet personally to put that aside, and then we can do that. We definitely had a team where there was also, you know, generational things. There's older people and very, very young, like straight out of college. And they. They were clashing and had different viewpoints. [00:53:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:52] Speaker B: So it's about coming together again and kind of dealing with those personalities. Say, this is what we do when we have conflict. [00:54:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:00] Speaker B: What. What do you think is best? Foot forward. [00:54:02] Speaker A: Yeah. That's super interesting and fascinating. You're a manager at your job, so you. You've got experience. You know what you're doing. [00:54:08] Speaker B: You know, I try sometimes. I know. Some days I don't. [00:54:14] Speaker A: I would have no patience. I'd be like, all right, guys, you're both fired. We're getting new people. Get out of here. [00:54:19] Speaker B: I don't know if you can fire. [00:54:20] Speaker A: Them, but I wouldn't put up with it. [00:54:21] Speaker B: Just put them in a ring with each other. Yeah. Figure it out. [00:54:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Whoever comes out alive, your idea has won. [00:54:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. That's right. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Where. So you. You're in how many countries? 22, I think you said. Okay. Do you. Can you name all the. The countries? Are you able. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, I wish I could. [00:54:41] Speaker A: Okay. [00:54:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I gotta Google that. You could do a fact check and then we'll go back and Google it. [00:54:47] Speaker A: I certainly will. My question for you is, are there countries that you feel like you're not in and you're like, God, we just, we gotta get in there, we gotta get after these people like that. Like there's untapped potential in this area, in this region. Because I would also imagine that part of the reason why, you know, you're only in 22 countries. Again, like there's regulations, there's, you know, there is bureaucracy that everybody has to go through. Like, is there a country where you're like, how we. Like, we would just be amazing if we could just pull more people out of that, out of that country? [00:55:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I wish I knew enough to answer that. I don't know if I know enough to answer. Like, I wish that we were there or not. And this has been a whole learning journey for me. Like I said, I didn't know anything about Central Asia or like you were alluding to all the countries in Central Asia. Like there's a lot of stunts. I didn't realize how many of them there were. Or even Africa. Think of how many countries are in Africa alone. [00:55:42] Speaker A: Totally. [00:55:44] Speaker B: So I don't know that I can make an educated guess or an answer on something like that because I don't think I know enough and I'm still learning. [00:55:52] Speaker A: That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I, again, like, I just, I'm really fascinated by this. So I'm just curious. I had a conversation with a friend recently of mine who's in lives in Colombia. And for the conversation, I didn't really understand like what the economic situation in Colombia was. Come to find out it has a booming tech industry and they are absolutely crushing it down in South America. And I would have never thought that. And he has a software company that helps small to medium sized businesses collect on their debts. [00:56:25] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:56:26] Speaker A: Yeah. So really, really fascinating. And yeah, I guess, I guess we're both kind of ignorant to what's going on around the world. [00:56:36] Speaker B: Well, I gotta educate myself. [00:56:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Are you guys in India? [00:56:41] Speaker B: No, not in India. Okay. [00:56:44] Speaker A: There's smart people in India. [00:56:46] Speaker B: They are, yeah. [00:56:47] Speaker A: Super smart people. [00:56:47] Speaker B: Probably running some of our tech over here for certain. [00:56:50] Speaker A: 100%. [00:56:52] Speaker B: What? [00:56:53] Speaker A: We both come from the tech industry, so a lot of Indians and tech. So I love that. If you could end on a message to all the young women across the world encouraging them to be entrepreneurs, what message would you have for them? What would you want them to know and understand? [00:57:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, let me see if I think about next gen girls. [00:57:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:20] Speaker B: One thing I'll say is I am really Hopeful because I see a lot of changes from the time that I was growing up to what the younger girls that I interact with now and the way that they view themselves a little more positively and then they're deal but. But they're also dealing with different things than what I dealt with growing up in an age of Internet social media and those type things, which is just so very different. But if I were to here's the message that I would give to next gen girls. 1. First and foremost, gender equality is a human right. It's something that has long been fought for. It's something that you should keep up the fight with. It creates healthier societies because of it. So don't let that slip. Don't let that go. The other thing I would say is it's okay to fail. Fail brings learnings. Don't shy away from new challenges. And in my time growing up, it was more about being perfect and not letting anyone see your failures. But failure is actually a way to learn and challenge yourself. You matter, your voice matters. So speak up. Be an active participant in any decision making process. Don't feel like you have to be timid. It's okay to speak up. And then the last thing I would say is to be authentic. You can be compliant and you can express your ideas and thoughts. So knowing the true you will take you a long way personally and professionally. And that is again just a lesson for me that was very different from when I was growing up. Trying to be perfect, trying to live up to what I thought people wanted to see as opposed to just being authentic. [00:59:23] Speaker A: Yeah, very well said. Thank you so much, Sandy. And I can just say I failed at everything I've ever done, but I did it authentically. So I'm very, I can attest to everything you just said, so wonderfully proud. [00:59:36] Speaker B: Well, you learned a whole lot then along the way. [00:59:38] Speaker A: That's right. You don't, you don't, you don't win or lose. You win or learn. Right? So I think that that was just a perf way to end it. Sandy Chen, thank you so much for your time. You have been brilliant. I really appreciate you coming on and talking all things tech women. [00:59:52] Speaker B: Thanks so much, Quentin. Thanks for having me. [00:59:54] Speaker A: Absolutely. Take care. [00:59:55] Speaker B: Take care.