Episode #14 - Gaining Against All Odds

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Gotcha. I didn't know the connection. [00:00:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I was trying to make that connection, but I don't know how I was going to do it after you're like. [00:00:04] Speaker A: There'S this neuroscientist, and then, do you know Obed. [00:00:08] Speaker B: We were establishing obed, and then I was going to make a point about obed, and then it just got lost. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Gotcha. [00:00:12] Speaker B: I just got lost. Well, look, first and foremost, Cosmo, thank you so much for. For coming on today, man. I really appreciate it. I'm really excited to have you on. Like, before we even started recording, I told you I saw you in the gym. Like, you are the epitome of what this podcast is all about, which is being resilient. Somebody who is courageous, somebody who has a growth mindset. You obviously have a story, and I'd love to kind of get into it. Before we do, I came up. I found this. This quote that I kind of wanted to get into, and then we'll. We'll jump into your backstory, if that's okay. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah, sounds good. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Cool. So this is from Arnold Schwarzenegger, and he once said, what we face may look insurmountable, but what I have learned is that we always are stronger than we actually know. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. [00:01:01] Speaker B: Super powerful. Like I said, I know you've got a story to tell. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Would you maybe share a little bit more about your backstory? [00:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So it can get long. [00:01:15] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. [00:01:16] Speaker A: We'll see. I'll. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Sure. [00:01:17] Speaker A: There's tangents to go on, which are fun, but let's see. So the wheelchair is the big, obvious one. Right. And then there's some stuff before that, like, in general life. But sure. I was injured about six years ago. I honestly don't keep track. I'm like, kind of whatever, you know, some people have their. You know, they. They have, like, an injury anniversary where maybe they celebrate or do the opposite of celebrating. I kind of just ignore it. But about six years ago, I was skiing at my university, so I went to Michigan Tech at is in the upper peninsula of Michigan. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Like, deep, deep north, you know, so a lot of snow. There's, like, a ski hill across the way, and we have student access, so I'm always going with my friends. And I'm an adrenaline junkie, and that hasn't changed. I'm always doing, like. I went skydiving, like, all this fun stuff. I'll do everything, you know, and so I'm going down this. Down the hill real fast, and I'm having fun. And then Last minute. You know, for most ski hills, there's the park section where the ramps and the rails to board slide and whatever. And I just thought, I kind of want to go off this ramp. And I did. And then I lost control in the air because I didn't really know how to do a jump that big and that fast. So I just landed kind of. Well, I landed wrong somehow. I don't know how exactly. Wasn't even wearing a helmet, but no concussion or anything. So somehow I didn't get a concussion, but my face was scraped up. Sure. And I was just kind of laying there. My buddies came up to me, and I was kind of unconscious in a way. Like, I wasn't. I didn't have any memory of it. I wasn't holding any conversations. Ski patrol comes up, picks me up, takes me to the hospital. MRI, CT scan, stuff like that. Blah, blah, blah. Surgery. I'm in the hospital for, like, six days. Okay, Recovering. And then from there, where the upper Peninsula is, I go straight down through Wisconsin into Chicago for inpatient rehab. I'm there for four weeks, just recovering, and. And then after that, I just went backup. Went back to university and. Because. Okay, so I got injured during winter break right before finals week of the semester. So most of my professors actually gave me a grade just because I. I wasn't gonna be there for the finals. So then I spent most of my winter break in rehab. And then when I went back up to university, I just resumed the next semester. [00:03:59] Speaker B: When you had the accident, did you know right away? [00:04:03] Speaker A: No, actually, I had, like, never known anybody in a wheelchair. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:08] Speaker A: Hardly knew what a spinal cord injury was. Never heard of it, never seen it. Totally unfamiliar, probably how most people are. They don't really understand or know about it unless you really encounter it. So while I was in the hospital, I was super, super optimistic because no one really told me. No one will ever say, you will or won't walk again unless it's extremely, extremely obvious. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:33] Speaker A: But even then, doctors will withhold saying anything so definitive. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Totally. [00:04:39] Speaker A: Just because you never know. There was people who had the same injury as me walking around and people with the same injuries, me with less functionality. So it's super, super individualized, the injuries, spinal cord injuries. So no one ever said anything to me about you will or won't walk again. So I was pretty determined saying, I'll walk again. I'll be fine. My mom was with me in the hospital because she can work remotely. All my friends from university. Because it was winter break. [00:05:08] Speaker B: Whoa. [00:05:10] Speaker A: So because it was Winter break, all my friends were driving through, and they stopped by, visited me and everything on their way home. So I had a lot of support throughout the whole time, which never gave me a time to be depressed. So I've never really been depressed about it. Never had downtime. A lot of people that I talk to will tell me stories about other people in wheelchairs who take five, 10 years just to get out of the house and do stuff. [00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:35] Speaker A: And for me, I was like, boom, right away. Optimistic, happy. Just kind of like, positive attitude the whole time through. And it was just kind of. It got set to my default state, so I just kind of kept it rolling. And I was surrounded by people. I'm sure if I had any time alone, I would have gotten into a certain mood, but because I was always surrounded by people trying to keep face, kind of be that the one that. When people look to me as the one that got injured, they're looking for cues on how to feel, do I feel sorry for him? Do I? What do I do? So I knew I had to kind of be the leader in that sense of saying, guys, don't worry. I'm fine. I'm gonna walk in, like, three weeks. And that was what I always said. And then inpatient rehab, you know, every single day, I'm doing workouts, I'm improving. They're teaching me how to, like, go from the floor to the chair, do this thing and that thing, and every session, I'm just crushing it. And the physical therapists are funny, and we're making jokes, and, of course, they're all kind of cute, so that helps. But, you know, it keeps you. It keeps you going. Of course. You don't want to look kind of. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Like a fool, you know, it's motivation. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it's motivation for sure. And then. And then you fart one time, and you're like, oh, I ruined it. Forget the fact that they're already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker B: That's hilarious. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Yeah. So. [00:07:03] Speaker B: So let me ask you a question. So I. I already think this is incredibly remarkable. Like, you immediately took on the role of, like, I'm not gonna let this control me. I'm gonna control the situation. Yep. I love that. Has that always been your personality? Has it always been your mindset? Like, where did that come from? [00:07:24] Speaker A: I think so. I think so. For most of my life, I was a kid. [00:07:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:30] Speaker A: So it's one of those things. Probably some. It's. It's some quote from, like, some stoic guy who says, you know, adversity is an opportunity to show your virtues? Something like that. Sure. Where, you know, up until that point, I'm just a normal guy going through normal life, and I'm just an average guy. No one would say, oh, this guy has a great mindset, stuff like that. Just a dude in university kind of partying. Sure. Kind of living with friends. But I guess it was kind of there in some way where it's. You know, it just came out like those virtues were there, but I didn't have an opportunity to do anything with them until something happened. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you play sports growing up? [00:08:18] Speaker A: Not really. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:19] Speaker A: I actually. I mean, I did kind of like, I did skateboarding, a little bit of basketball, a little bit of boxing. And then eventually I just got into bodybuilding because I worked out with all those sports. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:31] Speaker A: And then I just decided I like the workout part more than the other sport part. Sure. Kept doing that, Did a couple bodybuilding shows. I. And then I then stopped to go to university, focus on that, and I was in the middle of nowhere, so no bodybuilding shows to do. [00:08:47] Speaker B: So it sounds like this was the first time that you really had to, like, embrace adversity to a significant degree. More or less. Did this incident change who you were and who you are fundamentally, or is it just more like highlighting what was always there? And now you've got to take on the responsibility of being optimistic and grateful for the blessings that you do have? Because one thing that I keep hearing is, like, your friends were there and your family was there for you, and that's huge. I've had my own struggles, and I could tell you, like, the most grounding aspects are my friends and family. You know what I mean? [00:09:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:32] Speaker B: So I think that that's. I think that's incredible. But not everybody gets that. [00:09:36] Speaker A: True. [00:09:37] Speaker B: You know, So I guess, more or less what I'm asking is, are you. Do you feel like you've had to change your identity since the situation, or is this just something that's kind of exposed who you've always been? Yeah. [00:09:57] Speaker A: That's a good point. Or question. Yeah, it's a good question. Probably a mix of both. [00:10:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Where before I got injured, I was reading books. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Sure. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Such as the Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill, that type of kind of personal development stuff. Or I would go through some courses on, like, the Tony Robbins courses, the mindset stuff. The. [00:10:22] Speaker B: This was before the accident. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So before the accident, I was kind of getting into that whole field, that industry, you know, reading 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. I. I read a lot of the personal development books. And sure. Moved on to mostly history now, but so part of it was already there, and then it got exposed. [00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:41] Speaker A: But then at the same time, it got built upon. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:44] Speaker A: You know, so it came out and it was, you know, kind of. It wasn't mature. Yeah, it was. Okay. This is my first time doing this, and now I'm kind of relearning everything. I'm maybe growing pains, you might call it. But then through that process, it. [00:11:01] Speaker B: It. [00:11:02] Speaker A: I guess it kind of put me down a path that I was only one step into. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Totally. [00:11:06] Speaker A: And then I just was almost forced to continue down it. And, yeah, the support was insane. Right. Like, when I was in inpatient rehab, it was Shirley Ryan, which is. There's Craig Hospital here in Colorado. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:19] Speaker A: And Shirley Ryan is kind of like the other side of the country equivalent, so. So there's Shirley Ryan and the Craig Hospital, which are, as far as I know, the top two inpatient rehab facilities for spinal cord injuries. So being in there, being surrounded by people. And I think another thing that did help in kind of like how you mentioned counting my blessings is, you know, I guess, silver lining type of stuff where I still have full core control. I still have full, like, lower back and everything, so. Right. So my injury is T11 incomplete spinal cord injury, which is somewhere. I don't know, belly button is. I never know. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:59] Speaker A: But so for people who aren't aware, there's incomplete and complete. And different people use them in different ways. Where some people will say a complete injury means no, like, motor function, like, no muscular, like conscious control. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:18] Speaker A: And that would be complete to them because it's a complete injury in terms of functionality. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:23] Speaker A: But then there's the injury itself. Where is the spinal cord actually severed? Or is it just. It got bruised so hard that the bruise killed the cells, but it didn't sever the spine, spinal cord, and that would be incomplete or complete. Okay. So if someone, like, I don't know, a knife or something. Right. [00:12:41] Speaker B: Completely severed it. [00:12:42] Speaker A: Completely severed. That's a complete injury. But then if somehow they move their legs a little bit, some people might say that's incomplete. It's confusing. [00:12:50] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:12:51] Speaker A: So for me, it's incomplete. The spinal cord's still intact. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:55] Speaker A: But it's complete because I can't move the muscles at all. But I do have feeling, so I can feel light touch, no temperature. But I have a lot of. Excuse me. I have a lot of light touch and, like, pain. Okay. So I got my leg hair. If anyone pulls it, you can feel it. Yeah. [00:13:14] Speaker B: You Were going through rehab, did they. How far along were you able to, to get like, how far were you able to get before you just were like, okay, I guess I'm going to be confined to a wheelchair. Or are you still working on it? Are you still trying to rehab, like for walking? Yeah, for walking again. [00:13:31] Speaker A: It's still a goal, I think, honestly is know there, there's some parts of life where you just have to not be rational. [00:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:39] Speaker A: You have to say, like, listen guys, let me have this, you know, and for me, that's the idea of walking again. Because I think if I resigned to never walking again, I would probably go in a semi deep depression. Sure. And just not want to really live a long life or something. Sure. But I kind of hang on to that hope of I will walk again. I'll find out how, you know, maybe in 10 years from now. But like it will happen. And that's, that's the thing that's always been in my head is when I was in rehab and stuff, I was so naive. [00:14:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:13] Speaker A: About all this. And it was still so early on that anything could happen because it's within about the first five months is when the most recovery, kind of like the 90% recovery happens for spinal cord injury. And then, you know, it's like the exponential thing. So the last 10% of recovery takes twice as long as the first 90%. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:14:32] Speaker A: Like that. [00:14:32] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:14:33] Speaker A: And so within the first five months, you kind of know, like, it's going to be mostly like this. A few things might get better, but it'll mostly be like that. It took me a while to really understand that because I was still so naive. I'm inpatient rehab and I'm just working every day and I'm telling all the doctors and stuff. I'm don't worry, guys, I'm going to walk again. Just let's do stuff, let's work on it. And so that motivated me a lot. Totally is, I guess the naivety of it and not knowing the probabilities because you never know. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:05] Speaker A: You never know the probabilities. [00:15:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I would. I think that, I think you're looking at it the right way. I mean, I don't know. I wouldn't call it naivety. I call it, you know, optimistic, maybe delusionally optimistic. [00:15:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Sometimes. [00:15:22] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Yeah. But that's how I live my life. I, I don't like to think about, like, what's the probability of this working out. I think this is my goal and this is what I'm going To chase, period. [00:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:33] Speaker B: You know, and that's just how I've always been wired. That's always been my mentality. Did you make any progress? Were you. When you were going through rehab or. [00:15:43] Speaker A: I did a little bit. Okay. It was. That whole time in my life is a little fuzzy because it was six years ago and stuff, but I did actually, like, on my Instagram, I. I didn't have an Instagram before I got injured. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Just no social media guy. And then one of my friends made the account for me, and they told me, document everything. Document your progress. So I did. And so every single day. Yeah, I just wrote the caption limit for Instagram about everything I did that day. Every single day. And I had a bunch of, like, parents who were parents of other university students who found out about me, like, through Facebook pages, and everyone was just like, 6pm Cosmo's gonna post his thing about his day. And I had some of my friends telling me, my mom's asking me about when you're gonna post. You know, it was. It was a lot of parents, which is fun. [00:16:32] Speaker B: That's cool, man. No, I. I did my digging, I did my research, and I went and looked at your Instagram, and I. I went all the way down and kind of wanted to see, like, where you started to document everything, because I didn't know if this was something that you were doing prior to the accident or if the accident was kind of like that spark. It was. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's kind of what I got from it. Right. And your very first picture is like. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Yo, me and the super dude. [00:16:55] Speaker B: And I'm just. I really am, like, blown away and super impressed that, like, you in that moment, I mean, I can imagine so many people could be so discouraged. And. And I'll let you in a little bit about my story as well. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:07] Speaker B: But in that moment, it can be incredibly discouraging. But you really embraced it. How mean. [00:17:13] Speaker A: You. You pedal to the metal. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Pedal to the metal, bro. Like, you didn't even. It's. It wasn't even like, I need a couple days. It was like, somebody. I. Apparently somebody had kind of sparked this idea, and you just were like, yeah, I like that. I'm gonna do it. And that's why I'm, like, I'm so fascinated to. To try and understand who you were before the accident and who you are today. But it almost doesn't sound like you're any different. It sounds like this was just who you were. [00:17:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Before. [00:17:39] Speaker B: Before the fact. And then, you know, the accident Happened and like, you were like, okay, like, c' est la vie. This is life, Right? [00:17:46] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. It's just get back up on your feet. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Quote unquote, as much as fast as possible. I. I will say I am very opinionated about some things. One of them is, I mean, it's funny to say that too, but, like. [00:18:01] Speaker B: That was the best thing ever. [00:18:03] Speaker A: When I say, like, oh, I'm gonna go for a walk. Yeah, I'm gonna use the word walk. You know what I mean? It's like, I'm not sure. I'm not gonna go for a roll. You know what I mean? I'm just like, listen, guys, you know what I mean? Yeah, right. Like, why do we gotta change the whole vocabulary of going for a walk and stuff? But anyway, yeah. So I was just. So get right back up, get at it. And I would. Somehow I was extremely motivated to just make progress and get back to walking. And again, it's early on, I didn't know anything about spinal cord injuries, the science or anything, so I was really just thinking, oh, this is just, you know, sprained ankle. And then slowly more and more, I'm like, okay, no, this is going to take some real, you know, I got to do something external. At a certain point, I figured out, well, I'm not going to heal on my own. Do something external. I did try a bunch of other stuff, too. I'll go on a quick little tangent here. [00:18:55] Speaker B: Yeah, tangent it up. [00:18:57] Speaker A: So pulsed electromagnetic field is one thing where it's. It's like a pad that you'll lay down on and it'll send. It'll create a magnetic field through a current, which is like current and magnetics are related. And so when you have a coil, you can send a certain current pulse through it and it'll create a pulsed electromagnetic field. You set it at different frequencies. And there's some studies, and I haven't read them so fully maybe to know how credible they are or how repeatable they are. But there are some studies that show when you do this at certain frequencies, it will increase blood flow. [00:19:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:19:39] Speaker A: Because it's. It's essentially sending a magnetic field through your body, which can align the electrons because, you know, there's iron in our blood. I think that's about where it. Where it is in the science. I could be totally wrong, but there's something that happens where it increases blood flow, which then can increase scar tissue. Like getting rid of it. Yeah, in a way. Like, if you've ever heard of people, some people with a spinal Cord injury will get surgery to scrape out the scar tissue that builds up. Well, that's increased blood flow. [00:20:12] Speaker B: That's. I mean, that's a lot of, like, physical rehab. Right. It's like, if you injure your shoulder, you have a lot of, like. I don't know what the build up of muscle is, but essentially, you're just basically breaking it up. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:21] Speaker B: You're just breaking up, you know, whatever is keeping it stiff, essentially. So you were doing that. Are you laying down on this mat, by the way? [00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's a mat that you lay down on. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Do you feel anything? [00:20:34] Speaker A: No. You don't feel anything at all, which is why I'm so skeptical about it. [00:20:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Because I almost don't feel different before or after. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:20:40] Speaker A: And so sometimes I think, why not just do it anyway, just to see. Sure. And so I was doing that for a while, and there's. There's a physical therapy dedicated to spinal cord injury. Spinal cord injuries around here called New Ability, like neu, for, like, neurology. And they're really good. And what they do there is they'll put these electrical stim pads on your legs, so quads, glutes, and hamstrings. And it sends an insanely high signal to where. Because if you've ever heard of a TENS unit. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:13] Speaker A: Where people would do that for recovery. It stands for transcutaneous Electrical Neural Stimulation. Something to make it tense. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:22] Speaker A: And it's like that times 100. So I'll do. I'll literally stand up with that. So it makes my muscles contract. Yeah. Hard enough to where I can stand up on my own balance and weight, bear with, like, a kettlebell, and do workouts with it. So I was doing that three times a week. I was doing the PEMF thing. And the kicker is that all of this was leading up to. In 2023, I did a trip to Germany for stem cells. So I was in Germany for three months getting stem cell injections into some part of my spinal cord area. Sure. Once a week for, I guess it was like, 12 weeks. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Okay. [00:22:06] Speaker A: And didn't work. [00:22:07] Speaker B: Anything? No, no, nothing. [00:22:09] Speaker A: And that's the thing about probabilities. Right. I was thinking it's got to do something minimum and then something maximum. And I'm hoping to be somewhere in between. But not the minimum. Closer to the maximum. And then. Excuse me. While I was there, I was also doing this exoskeleton physical therapy. [00:22:26] Speaker B: I saw that. [00:22:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah. That's super interesting. [00:22:28] Speaker A: It's awesome. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And I did make progress There. [00:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Perfect. Nice. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so the exoskeleton. And you were on, like, that treadmill thing, right? Yeah, yeah, I was watching the video of that earlier today. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:39] Speaker B: Super interesting. Does that walk for you or does that. [00:22:42] Speaker A: No. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Send signals to your. To your legs and then allow you to walk? [00:22:46] Speaker A: It signals from my legs to the machine. [00:22:48] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:22:49] Speaker A: Which makes it. It's, I think, in. In terms of physical therapy for this type of injury and, like, recovery, I think it's probably amongst the best because the pads are on the legs in the same areas. You know, front hips, glutes, hamstrings, quads. [00:23:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:23:09] Speaker A: And then the robot or the exoskeleton will take the signal from the legs and move the motor according to where that signal is. So there's, you know, motors on the knees, motors on the hips, and if it gets a signal from the front hips, it'll kind of lunge you forward, back hips, lunge you backwards. So you're supposed to get a full walking step from it. Yeah, and I'd made a lot of progress in that. When I first started, the signal was so bad that we couldn't use my legs, and we hooked it up to my arms. So curl my arm in for the hamstring. Tricep. [00:23:45] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I saw, baby. [00:23:47] Speaker A: And I was going like this, trying to get it. The machine to walk, and then eventually my legs picked up enough signal from that movement, and by the end of it, I was walking, I think it one or two kilometers an hour, just going for it. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:24:04] Speaker A: So a lot of progress there, but it didn't, unfortunately, translate to actual, like, function progress. Could you. [00:24:12] Speaker B: So the. When I. The video that I saw, you were on a treadmill, and you were. It looked like you were hooked up to a bunch of wire. Like, the. The equipment was hooked up to a bunch of wires. I saw a video on social media, and this is kind of a silly video, but in China, they have, like, these, like, leg things that you can put on and go on hikes and essentially does the same thing for you. Like, you. You put in minimal amount of effort to move your legs, and it moves the rest of your leg for you. So it allows you to hike and walk and run. I mean, I think it's kind of silly for someone who has working legs to do that, personally. [00:24:44] Speaker A: You're gonna hike? [00:24:45] Speaker B: Just hike, I guess, just send it. [00:24:46] Speaker A: Unless you're, like, 80 or 90. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. Totally. That totally makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. My question is, would that. Could that ever be, like, A permanent solution. I wonder, like, could you walk around with that? [00:24:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:00] Speaker B: In your day to day, I wonder. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it would depend. Person to person. [00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:03] Speaker A: So for me, because I don't have any hips at all, it would have to kind of come up my lower back so it wouldn't like just swing at the hinge almost. I do, however, I have a criteria in my head which might be a little bit too harsh. But for what? What it means for me to be walking again. Yeah. Which is I can take a shower standing up. [00:25:22] Speaker B: Can. Okay. [00:25:22] Speaker A: Which almost eliminates the robots completely. [00:25:24] Speaker B: Totally. [00:25:25] Speaker A: I can walk on the beach. Maybe in Thailand. Why not? Yeah, but any beach. But I want to like go walking on the beach, maybe jump into the water too. And that's it. Just those two. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:25:35] Speaker A: But those are kind of my criteria for if I can walk again. I really want to really do it because if it's some exoskeleton thing, that would be nice. But it's like I gotta put it on. It's got a battery life. And I'm just gonna do what? Like I'm going to walk around, park, you know where, like can I go clubbing with that thing on? Can I jump around and dance? [00:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. [00:26:00] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe, if it, if it gets thin enough. [00:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah. But no, I get that. I think that that's a fair argument. I mean, it's not, it's for sure limiting, you know what I mean? Like to your point, you're not jumping in the ocean with those things. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:13] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [00:26:14] Speaker A: Yeah, but there's use case, like if I'm getting married, stand up at my wedding fair, or if I do for some reason want to go on a very specific flat ground walk. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:25] Speaker A: Or maybe if somehow they, they start to get high enough in technology where they can work, like you said, hiking. So if I want to hike a 14er, I could do it. I would probably do stuff like that. [00:26:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker A: But I wouldn't consider it a I can walk again type of. [00:26:39] Speaker B: No, I totally get that. I mean, I totally get that. So what do you do for it now? Like, what do you like, do you work on things daily? Are you playing like this game of like, I'm just gonna put all my mind power into moving my left toe type of thing. Like, what are you doing to rehab it today? Are you rehabbing it today? [00:26:57] Speaker A: Are you trying to know? Shame. Shame. I've been focusing on bodybuilding for a while. Okay. So in 2023, I was in Germany for three months. Yeah, everything like that. I came Back I continued the, the physical therapy, a new ability. And after a while of doing that, I just couldn't keep it up because it's one of those things where all. Everything's just in this. All eggs are in this basket. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:27] Speaker A: And so it takes away from work, it takes away from social life, it takes away from maybe my relationships, friends or women, anything like that. And so at a certain point I had to just say it didn't really work. Continuing to leave work early and go to physical therapy three days a week is not sustainable long term. And it's not. I'm not seeing enough progress to. What's the word? I'm not seeing enough progress to stay motivated. [00:27:58] Speaker B: To stay motivated. [00:27:59] Speaker A: Stay motivated to kind of like validate. [00:28:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:28:03] Speaker A: That I'm putting. If that makes sense. That's another word for it. I can't think of it. Yeah, but you know what I mean, like, totally. I can't, I can't keep putting money and time into this if I'm seeing no progress. Yeah, a little bit of progress. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Good. [00:28:14] Speaker A: No progress. Okay. Well, if the rest of my life starts to fall apart. Yeah. You know, I'm going to lose my job, that I can't do it anymore. And. And then after that, I, I am going to get back into it because now bodybuilding is over. So this whole year has basically been totally dedicated to bodybuilding. So again, everything was on the back burner. [00:28:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:28:35] Speaker A: And now it's kind of like. Okay, time to rebalance things. Sure. [00:28:38] Speaker B: Okay, let's go. Let's go down that angle. Because this is what I'm really, really impressed by, by you, is like, I, when I think of bodybuilder, I'm thinking of like Kai Green and Arnold Schwarzenegger and like these just. Absolute behemoth. What inspired you to even get into fitness? It didn't sound like you. Were you doing it before the accident? [00:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:00] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. [00:29:01] Speaker A: Yeah, so I did. Do you know, I was just a sporty guy. [00:29:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:05] Speaker A: In general. And then through those sports, I slowly got introduced to weightlifting more and more. And then I guess just almost like any guy who starts getting into bodybuilding when he's in high school. Yeah, you watch videos, you, you watch pumping iron and you just go to the gym. You have a couple friends in there, you know, I had this guy, every time I come in, he's like golden boy, you know, And I'm going to his show, watching him on stage, and then I go on stage. I don't know how it started. I don't even know If I asked my. It was my dad. I don't even know if I asked him to find me a bodybuilding show or if I expressed interest. All I. All I really remember is that all of a sudden I'm on stage. [00:29:49] Speaker B: So you were bodybuilding before the accident? [00:29:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:52] Speaker B: Dude, that's crazy. [00:29:53] Speaker A: My first Show, I was 15. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:56] Speaker A: It was. It was a natural show. So I'm natural. I'm still natural. Always been natural. I hate needles. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Okay, that's fair. [00:30:02] Speaker A: Me too. I can't do needles, and I don't want to spend the money on it. I don't even know where to get steroids. It's a whole thing I just don't care about. I'm not trying to. It's also not my whole career identity, and if that makes sense, it's part of who makes Cosmo. But I'm not. My Instagram isn't all bodybuilding videos and pictures, and my life isn't all bodybuilding. You know, this is one aspect. And I'm not like, I am a pro bodybuilder now, but I'm not making it. My whole income, my whole career. Sure. My whole identity in that way. So for me, there's no point to really do any steroids or stuff. [00:30:41] Speaker B: Was. Was there ever a point where you're like, okay, I had this accident. Like, I can't do this anymore. Or you were like, no. Like, I know that there's other people who are in wheelchairs and they compete, so I'm gonna compete. Like, was that, like. Did you ever have, like, a moment of just, like, being discouraged at all, or were you just, like, not really keep. [00:31:02] Speaker A: Keep. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Keep on keeping on? [00:31:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I just. [00:31:06] Speaker B: I. [00:31:07] Speaker A: So inpatient rehab, they would take us out to, like, different gyms or something, and because of my familiarity with the gym already, I was not scared to go back. And also because, like, the silver lining thing, I had full abs. I had a girlfriend at the time, and she was really attractive, so I had so many things going for me. I just felt like I was the king of the world, you know? [00:31:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:29] Speaker A: So I never thought about, you know, oh, my life is over. [00:31:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Because I just kept finding things to do or finding things that in a Maybe. Maybe not a bad way, but just boosted my ego. [00:31:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:43] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Like, my ego was just getting. Just boosted up. And not for any bad reasons. I definitely wasn't. [00:31:49] Speaker B: I've. [00:31:50] Speaker A: I've become more humble over the years. Sometimes my friends. My friends will tell me some of the things I've said And I'm like, that's embarrassing. What I really that like was I really like that. So I never thought I couldn't do bodybuilding. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:04] Speaker A: And I honestly just didn't want to get sticky from the spray tan. That's what held me back the most, is I was just. Because I knew how uncomfortable that was and I thought it would be really bad being in the wheelchair because I couldn't like stand up really and kind of air myself out. I kind of got to sit down and stuff. But it's actually not that bad. They just spray tan in my upper body and I just kind of try not to lean back on the backrest too much. So it was last year and I had been working out for ever since I got back to university. After inpatient rehab, I just started going to the gym with my friends and figuring things out because it was still part of my identity. Like I work out, if I don't work out, I feel terrible about myself. So I. So not that my identity is tied in with bodybuilding specifically, but I will say my identity, like my self image of who I am is definitely tied in with looking muscular to whatever ideal that I have for myself. So I knew that if I stopped working out, I would start to really hate myself. [00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:05] Speaker A: So I still worked out after the wheelchair and still kept doing it for a long time. And then last year, at some point I was talking to my friend who's. He's my coach as well now. He's a PhD in kinesiology, bodybuilder himself. We met in the gym, of course, and we just call them up, chat every now and again. Hey, bro, how you doing? What research are you working on? Blah, blah, blah, how's life? And I brought up to him I thought maybe I should look into bodybuilding. Yeah, I look it up online, wheelchair bodybuilding, and I figure out it's a little bit easier than normal bodybuilding, like to get your pro card. So for most people or for anybody else, any other division, you do an NPC show and you do like an NPC qualifier. That qualifier gets you to another show. And if you win that show, you get your pro card. [00:33:56] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:33:56] Speaker A: And then you win another show, I think, and that's a pro show. If you win that pro show, then you go to Olympia, something like that, where it's hard, you gotta do multiple shows. It probably takes a couple years because you gotta not only do multiple shows, which you can only do two or three per year, but then you have to win them too. [00:34:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:16] Speaker A: And for the wheelchair, there's not as many people competing, so the criteria is much easier. The first show I did wasn't. Was a IFBB Pro Qualifier, so I went straight to that. I win that show, I get my pro card. So the first show a wheelchair athlete does could be. You get them. [00:34:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:34:35] Speaker A: And then the next show I did was the pro show, and I won that and then Olympia. So it's just three shows, and one of them is the Olympia. And so I looked into that. I found that out, talked to my buddy. I said, I think I want to do this. And then I just forgot about it. [00:34:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:51] Speaker A: And then a little while later, girlfriend that I had, we broke up. And, you know, when you have a girlfriend, you're a couple. That's your life. You know, they're your everything. And then when you break up, you. You just think, oh, great. Now I have to figure out what to do with myself because there's. There's nothing to do anymore. So I had to kind of. I realized I didn't build a life for myself here because I was building a life with her. So then when we broke up, I was like, okay, I gotta start reaching out to people. I reached out to everybody I knew in Colorado, like in the Denver area, and I just asked, hey, do you want to hang out this weekend? Let's go out. Let's hang out. Because I knew I didn't want to be alone. I wanted to build some friendships. And so I did that. And in that same time, I thought I got to start doing some side quests, set some goals for myself. And one of the side quests, I thought, well, hey, what if I get to Olympia next year? Text my buddy, I say, let's do it. And he said, all right. Instantly. Start on a diet. Start taking photos. And that was the beginning of last December, so about 11 months ago. [00:35:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:35:59] Speaker A: And since then, I just. I did the shows, I won, and I went to Olympia. [00:36:04] Speaker B: Okay. So you just got back from Olympia, right? Yeah. You got your snazzy new jacket. [00:36:09] Speaker A: I got the nice looking good jacket. [00:36:11] Speaker B: Love it. Looking fresh, brother. How'd you do? I lost. [00:36:14] Speaker A: I did pretty. My goal is to get there. Yeah, I remember that. I love that. But, yeah, the. The thing that's really, really tough about bodybuilding. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Is. And I have heard this said before, that it's not exactly the two hours in the gym every day. It's the other 22 hours of extreme discipline, essentially starving yourself, where you have to be in a kind of controlled famine state. [00:36:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:43] Speaker A: For 20 weeks. 25 weeks, where you're high protein overall, low calories, low carbs, mid low fats. And to do that for an extended period of time is not sustainable. At a certain point, your body literally is starved. [00:37:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:03] Speaker A: And it'll just eat. I had a whole loaf of bread one night, 1500 calories. And that was just the first part, but the first thing I ate, not the last. It was after the competition. That was before I messed myself up, bro. [00:37:19] Speaker B: I've been working out for. I started working out when I was 11 years old. I'm 35 now. [00:37:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:23] Speaker B: So I've been working out for like just under 25 years, something like that. Not once have I ever wanted to compete a day in my life because I know how miserable it is. I used to work at 24 Hour Fitness in my young, in my early 20s, and there were so many people who would come in and out of that gym and, you know, they train out of there or whatever. Um, and it just seemed, first of all, it seemed like excruciatingly painful. Just the diet. They were doing cardio two times a day. They were, you know, doing their routines and, you know, poses and all that stuff. But then it was very political. [00:38:00] Speaker A: It is. [00:38:01] Speaker B: And at the time, and this was, you know, back in 2011, 2012, something like that. I don't know what it's like anymore, but if you didn't have a trainer that came out of armrest, you weren't even gonna place. And so it was really, really like, you have to have this guy. You've got to train for this long. And it was very like, you know, it was almost, it was almost like people were like a shoe in to win to a certain degree. Now that's not Mr. Olympia by any means. I'm not. Obviously I'm talking about local bodybuilding here to Colorado, but what's been your experience in terms of the culture and, and that side of things, like, isn't gonna hate me. [00:38:40] Speaker A: I honestly am so out of touch. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Are you? [00:38:43] Speaker A: I was backstage at the finals. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:46] Speaker A: And I'm kind of apart from the group because I'm, I'm roaming around, I'm meeting people, I'm having fun. I'm, I'm looking at all the screens until someone says, don't. You know, I was just looking around, but the group of the other wheelchair bodybuilders, they're all together kind of at the pump up area and whatnot. And so I'm off somewhere. One of the, one of. I don't want to, I don't know what to call him, but he's, he's not competing. He's a normal, like standing guy, but he's there. He. Because I think he is a producer for some other shows. So he was there just kind of helping organize, helping be part of the wheelchair division. He came up to me and he says, I forget the guy's name now, but he's like, hey, this one guy, Dan something like, we're all taking a photo with him. Do you want to, do you want to join? I was like, who's that? And he said, that's the owner of the Olympia. I didn't know who that was. I was, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll join. And I'm backstage, I'm looking at all the, like the big open bodybuilders, right? [00:39:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:43] Speaker A: Looking at all of them compete. I mean, I recognize Phil Heath. He was back there not to compete, but he was back there to support. I recognize him. I didn't recognize anybody else. Dude, I'm so out of touch with the sport, I say I'm hilarious. I'm a player, not a watcher. [00:39:55] Speaker B: That's hilarious. So you, you ate bread before. [00:40:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:06] Speaker B: And then you don't know who Dan is. [00:40:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:09] Speaker B: So you set yourself up for success. [00:40:11] Speaker A: It sounded like, yeah, I was, I was ready to have a good time, you know, the childlike wonder of. It's Dan Solomon. That's who it is. [00:40:19] Speaker B: Here's what I'll say. I love your approach, cuz. You're soaking it all in, you're having a great time. You. [00:40:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I knew I wasn't going to win. [00:40:26] Speaker B: And, and look, I think to a certain degree, people like, put a lot of pressure on themselves, which is fine, of course, like, you know, be co oriented. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:40:36] Speaker B: But if you're not living in the moment, if you're not really embracing it, what's the point, right? You're gonna miss it, you're gonna miss it. You know what I mean? So it's like, I love the fact that you were like, I'm just so happy to be here. I'm gonna soak it in. I'm gonna do, you know, like, dude, you made Mr. Olympia. Like, that's amazing. Huge deal. You know what I mean? And like the discipline side of things. I see you at the gym every day, you're crushing it. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:59] Speaker B: You know what I mean? I think one of the most impressive things that I've seen from you is when you're doing your pull ups in your chair, I'm like, dude, Beast mode crowd, please. It's incredible. It's incredible, man. It's really, really cool. Do you ever feel insecure in the gym? [00:41:13] Speaker A: The gym is probably the place I feel the least insecure. [00:41:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:17] Speaker A: Mainly just because, you know, when I lay down on the bench press. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:22] Speaker A: And you lay down on the bench press, anyone else lays down, it's an equalizer in a way, because, yeah, I can't squat, so it's almost nullified. There's no competition. I'm not going to feel insecure because, you know, if someone feels insecure about having small calves but they can do calf raises, then they feel like they can do more, they can catch up, but they don't. They can't. Somehow, something's wrong. For me, I have a pretty good excuse. So for me, it's, well, yeah, of course I can't squat. Why would I even think, like, I'm not in the competition for legs, but I'm in the competition for bench press. And my max. Bench, actually 325, one rep max. [00:41:59] Speaker B: Damn. [00:42:00] Speaker A: That was one of my proudest moments. [00:42:02] Speaker B: That's incredible. [00:42:03] Speaker A: And so that's what I mean is, like, I can compete with other guys that are, you know, maybe 140, 150, which is my kind of bulkier weight. [00:42:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Like, if I'm pushing 325, I'm probably weighing 150. [00:42:16] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:16] Speaker A: And other guys who weigh 150, if they don't push through their legs, are they benching 325? [00:42:23] Speaker B: A hundred percent. That's a good point. That's a really good point, actually. Yeah. [00:42:27] Speaker A: So the gym. Yeah, I don't feel insecure at the gym. I never really felt insecure anywhere. I have been, you know, just kind of sad. Here's. Here's a recent example. I was at one of my best friend's weddings a couple weeks ago, and amazing wedding, great friend of mine, seeing everybody, you know, and all that. Really great. And the whole time, though, in the back of my head, I'm thinking, I can't give something like this to any woman because the wheelchair, unfortunately, it kind of takes over most situations like that where I'm not getting out on the dance floor, I can't stand up or I can't do this thing and that thing. So there's a lot of restrictions there where, you know, if some woman wants a wedding, you know, they dream of their wedding their whole life, stuff like that, then I can't. I can't get. I can't meet that expectation, you know, and so I feel kind of sad or I don't know what to call it, but it's like, I can handle this myself. Like, this is my life. I'm fine. I'm comfortable, I'm confident. I'm not really insecure about anything specifically. But if I bring someone else into my life, I feel. I feel bad about that or about, you know, I can handle this, but I don't want to make someone else life. Someone else's life. [00:43:55] Speaker B: No, I understand that. Yeah. [00:43:56] Speaker A: It's hard to articulate. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:58] Speaker A: But, you know, if, like, I go on, I travel a lot. [00:44:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:01] Speaker A: I love to go on vacation and stuff, but a lot of people like to go to the beach. [00:44:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:07] Speaker A: I can't. [00:44:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:08] Speaker A: Or I can, but I can't run on the beach with them or jump into the water with them. I need to get carried and stuff like that. Or going on hikes or just certain parts where, for the wheelchair, the world is smaller. [00:44:22] Speaker B: It's. [00:44:22] Speaker A: It's kind of similar to some video game map with a bunch of locked areas. [00:44:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:27] Speaker A: And those locked areas are things up the stairs or things that are not super smooth. You know, I can do gravel roads and stuff, but at a certain point, if it's too narrow of a pathway or there's a bunch of rocks in the way, that's a locked area. [00:44:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:41] Speaker A: And, yes, I could kind of do it. One time I was on a trail with my mom and a girlfriend, and there was this impassable part for the wheelchair. So what we did was we did like a wheelbarrow, if you remember that, from summer camp. So my mom or my girlfriend, each of them held up one of my legs, and then I just walked on my hands and just went. Went through. And it was actually super easy. [00:45:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:08] Speaker A: So that. That was, you know, one of those things where you just got to get creative, figure things out. [00:45:13] Speaker B: Well, you have, you know. You know, one thing that you. That I really admire about you and I think that you and I share is a sense of humor. And you have to have a sense. [00:45:20] Speaker A: Of humor about things. [00:45:21] Speaker B: You got to laugh about it. You know what I mean? Like, I'm five foot one, bro. Like, I'm. I'm a short guy. You know what I mean? If couldn't laugh at it, like, what kind of misery would I be living in? [00:45:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:45:32] Speaker B: You know what I mean? And. And like, I have friends and look, guys are the worst when it comes to just saying the meanest things in the world. [00:45:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:39] Speaker B: But it's okay. [00:45:40] Speaker A: Pure love. [00:45:41] Speaker B: It's all love. It's all love because they have insecurities that you can poke out too. But the fact that you can laugh about, like the things that you feel insecure about, man, that goes such a long way because life is too short to be upset about. The things that you, you know, that. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Limit you, especially the things you can't change. [00:45:56] Speaker B: You can't change them. [00:45:57] Speaker A: If you can't change it, you might as well just do something positive about it. [00:46:01] Speaker B: 100. So you mentioned philosophy earlier. I have a bracelet here that says amor fati. And amor fati means like, love your fate. So be grateful for the things that happen to you and embrace them. Because when you try to resist it, it just makes life harder. [00:46:17] Speaker A: True. [00:46:17] Speaker B: So just appreciate the things that you have. Be grateful. I think having sense of humor is a great way to express your gratitude. So I love that aspect about you, man. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker A: Yeah, there's. There's a story about fate, but I'm totally gonna botch it. I don't think. I. I'll try to say. I'll try to say it, but you might want to cut it out. You might want to cut it out. Yeah, I brought it up. Great. It's. It's this prince and his king. [00:46:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:46] Speaker A: And the prince comes running to the king saying, king, please let me travel to this other far away city. I just saw death. Like the grim reaper. I just saw death and I don't want to be here. And let's say the far city is called Tehran because that's, I think, where the story setting is. And the king says, yeah, of course, go, you know. And then later, death comes up to the king and the king says, are you here for me? He says, no, I'm here for the prince. And he says something, something, something. He's like, oh, that's weird. I was going to meet him in Tehran, something like that. And it's so, you know, it's. Death is there and he's like, oh, that's funny. I just saw this prince here, but I'm gonna meet him in Tehran later tonight. Fate is always, yeah. Working, working its way through. So, yeah, you just take it as it comes. [00:47:35] Speaker B: You just gotta embrace it, man. You just absolutely have to embrace it because life is too short and we don't know what's happened, you know, we don't know what's after this. So you might as well just be grateful for. For what you have. You know what I mean? And you've got. Sounds like you've got a Lot of blessings in your life. [00:47:47] Speaker A: Yeah. That's kind of my mindset with. With the wheelchair and with walking again, where I know I'm not going to be able to do it naturally. And the stem cells didn't work. So it's going to be some external device and I might try to get into. With my electrical engineering background, I might try to get into research for it. [00:48:05] Speaker B: Question for you. This has just popped in my mind. Elon Musk has neuralink. [00:48:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:13] Speaker B: Would that work? Does that fit your profile? Like where? [00:48:17] Speaker A: I don't think so. Okay, maybe could. But the neural link is like a brain interface. Right. As far as I know, I haven't kept up. So for people who can't move their hands, this is, I think, an example that happened recently. Somewhat recently, where someone played a video game or something on the computer with the neural link. Because they can't use their hands. [00:48:40] Speaker B: Right. They were using their eyes. Yeah, yeah. [00:48:43] Speaker A: So it's a brain interface for that. For me, the issue is at the spinal cord. [00:48:47] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:48:48] Speaker A: So it wouldn't really be in the brain unless. Unless it's within the brain detecting signals for the intention to move my legs. And then maybe there's a robot or something or even another device below the injury, because where the injury is, it's like a signal stopper. So as long as we can bridge that gap somehow. That's where the walking comes in from. An external device. There's a company in, I think, Switzerland doing research where it's an implantable device that essentially will read the signal coming in from above the injury and then just relay it. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Kind of bridge the injury gap and just send it over down to the bottom. [00:49:29] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:49:29] Speaker A: In which case that would probably. As far as I can imagine, that's probably the best way forward other than some, you know, crispr genetic miracle to just make me heal. Right. Like Wolverine or something. [00:49:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:42] Speaker A: But something to bridge that gap would probably be the most feasible in terms of an external device. [00:49:48] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:49:48] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:49:49] Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah. I just popped into my mind, so I figured, yeah, I don't know much about it. Obviously, I'm not, you know, that's not my. Right, my realm. And it's obviously very complex. So, you know, biology, man. Yeah, it's wild. It's super. [00:50:02] Speaker A: But I have been thinking, you know, in terms of a fulfilling career. [00:50:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:06] Speaker A: Why not doing do. Do research or do engineering in the field that directly affects me because otherwise I'm just gonna sit here and say, oh, they, you know, scientists will figure it out in 10 years. Well, nothing happens unless people actually do something. [00:50:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:25] Speaker A: And I don't want to just sit back and rely on the, the good faith of funding research and some scientists in Switzerland to do it. I want to be directly there. [00:50:35] Speaker B: Love that. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Making the progress, seeing it happen. Maybe I'll be in Switzerland doing it. But I've been thinking that would be like a really fulfilling career long term for like right now I work at Oracle, software engineer. It's nice. I love it. If I could stay forever, maybe I would. But at the same time, you know, it's. I have the software engineering, I have the electrical engineering skills. It'd be really fun, I think, and feeling like I said, to apply it directly to the change that I want to see and the progress that I want to see in biology. Technology. [00:51:10] Speaker B: Dude, I love that. I mean that's, that's perfect, right? Like you're passionate about it. It's something that like, first of all, obviously is going to drive you. It's something that's going to bring fulfillment and purpose to your life. But yeah, I mean, imagine if you were somebody who could help like advance that technology or that field of, of medicine. That would be incredible. Truly. [00:51:33] Speaker A: Truly. [00:51:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:34] Speaker A: There's. So I'm, I love quotes. I have a list of quotes on my phone that automatic. There's another one that I really like from Leonardo da Vinci where it's. There are some people who sit back and let things happen to them and then there are those people who happen to things. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Wow. [00:51:51] Speaker A: So going out and happening to things is what I'm trying to. [00:51:53] Speaker B: Dude, I love that. Yeah, look, staying stagnant, I'm, I'm not a fan of. And just moving forward and trying to move the needle any and every way you can is, is super important. So I, I love that mentality. What's next, bro? Are you going to keep competing? Are you going to keep doing bodybuilding? Do you. [00:52:10] Speaker A: I'll keep working out. [00:52:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:12] Speaker A: I'm so one of, one of the things. This is from Andy something, the guy who was at Intel. [00:52:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:22] Speaker A: Do you remember his name? [00:52:23] Speaker B: No, I don't. [00:52:24] Speaker A: But you know who I'm talking about. He wrote like do hard things or something and he wrote High output management. [00:52:30] Speaker B: Yes. [00:52:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So in one of those books he wrote about do three big things every year and that's the most a person can do. And so I just took that for my personal life and I thought every year I want to have it defined by three big things. And it doesn't have to be, you know, amazing resume achievement it can be make. Making new friends or something that's significant to me. But three big things per year that are my, like, big goals or, you know, that define the year. So 2023 for me was mostly defined by the stem cell. That was my very big thing. And then 2024 was defined by don't ask. I forgot a couple things for sure. Like, I bought a house. [00:53:18] Speaker B: I. Oh, nice. [00:53:18] Speaker A: I did start the bodybuilding. I did some traveling, which for me, I want to have as a goal to do some type of adventurous travel every year. This year, 2025, my goals were. One of them is get to Olympia. [00:53:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:53:35] Speaker A: Not win, but get there. So you did that. So that's one of the goals that I had and a few others. Doesn't matter what they are. Next year, 2026, my goals are to get into public speaking for one of them, do some more traveling as well. Just different types of traveling and stuff. And then the third one, yet to be decided, I have a couple months left to figure that out. So some of them are a little bit within work. [00:54:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:54:02] Speaker A: Like maybe get a promotion or just grow within the industry, learn more technology. And then some are less professional, focused, more personal, like the bodybuilding. Sure. Long, long story short, long answer short, I will get back into bodybuilding. I will compete again. Probably not for a while. It's gonna be on the back burner while I focus on some other goals. I am thinking, though, if there's a show, an ifbb show, where I win and I get qualified for Olympia towards the end of 2026, that would qualify me for 2027 Olympia. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:54:40] Speaker A: That's what I would do. Because I need a big gap between. [00:54:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:44] Speaker A: My problem with this year's Olympia was that I had two shows back to back. I trained for 26 weeks, perfect discipline. I was shredded to the bone. I looked amazing at 1. And then after that, I had June, July, August, September, I had four months, plus one or two weeks kind of limbo, trying to stay lean, but trying to maintain, and it was just too much. It was just too long. So having kind of an awkward four months between shows, I just couldn't sustain it. My body broke down, my discipline broke down, and I just couldn't maintain the strict diet. So what I've learned from that is either do the shows back to back, because my first two shows were one week apart. So weekend number one, I was in Idaho. Weekend number two, I was in Toronto. And I just. It was such little time that it was easy to keep the diet. [00:55:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:41] Speaker A: Because I knew something was coming up right away. But then when you have four months and you think, oh, you know, I'll eat this little thing right now because I'll just get back on track tomorrow. And then when you do that every week. [00:55:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's bad. Yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker A: So for 2026, if there's a show towards the end of the year, that'll give me 10 or 12, 10 or 11 months before Olympia, and that'll be enough time to really take a break after the first show. Four months, maybe. And then I can spend the next four months, five months, really training for Olympia. [00:56:15] Speaker B: Totally. Okay. [00:56:16] Speaker A: So if I could win 2027, that would probably be my goal. 2027, Olympia. Try to win. [00:56:22] Speaker B: Oh, like, really go all out, Go. [00:56:24] Speaker A: All in, get, like 1% body fat. Really? Really try to win. [00:56:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, look, I think every chance you get at one of these shows, I mean, it's practice. [00:56:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:34] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Like, there's never going to be, maybe there is, like, the pinnacle of your, you know, where you're going to be in the sport, but I think you're. You're thinking about the right way is like, the long term. Like, this year was great. You got the experience, you went. You know what to expect. You know what your diet's got to be like eating bread. My lesson, you know, Dan, now you know all those things. And then next year could be another attempt at just practicing and, you know, honing in on, you know, your skills. And I don't know, do you guys do posing? Do you have, like, specific posing? [00:57:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:57:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So with my coach, we'll do posing practice and all of that. And it's when we line up, it's called the mandatory poses. [00:57:14] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:57:15] Speaker A: Where you're like, in relaxed, which is not relaxed at all, but it's a relaxed pose. And then they'll do front double bicep, front lat spread. [00:57:21] Speaker B: Okay. [00:57:22] Speaker A: Turn to the right. Side relaxed. Side, chest, side tricep, turn again, facing. And then your back is facing the judges. Back, double bicep, back, lat spread. And then, of course, relaxed. [00:57:34] Speaker B: Gotcha. [00:57:34] Speaker A: Quarter turn again, final turn. Side, chest again. Side tricep again, side relaxed again. Turn again. You're done. [00:57:43] Speaker B: It's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My whole point being is just like every year you can, you can hone in on those skills and you get, you get to look at your body and be like, okay, my delts weren't big enough. Okay, my biceps weren't big enough. [00:57:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:54] Speaker B: Do you, do you follow Kai Green at all. [00:57:57] Speaker A: I don't follow him actively, but I do know who he is. I actually saw him at the Olympia. [00:58:01] Speaker B: That's awesome. So for years when I like kind of followed bodybuilding, when Phil Keith was doing is like, because he won it like six times. Yeah, he was like a stud every year. Kai Green was just like in second place. In second place. In second place. In second place. And I'd follow him on social media and he was just like, I gotta get my, my delts gotta get bigger, my quads are gonna get better, you know, I gotta get better at this pose, I gotta get better at this. And I really respected the fact that he was open about like, this is why he beat me. There was, there were times where he complained about the fact that, you know, he looked better in certain areas than Phil. But for the most part, I think again, every time that you go out there is a time to really like, really understand where your weaknesses are. And then going back to the gym and then working on those weaknesses. [00:58:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:58:46] Speaker B: You know, so I like the long term play. I think that's, I think that's the move for sure. [00:58:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, yeah. To your point, figuring out, I call it the gap. [00:58:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Like from where I am and where I want to be. What's the gap? What's. It's important to know where you are. And then it's also very important to know where you want to be because only then can you really understand if you just said it like just numerically for the sake of example. I'm at 7, I need to get to 15. That's a calculable gap. Sure. You know, and then you can, you know, okay, now I, now I know the gap that needs to close, then figure out how to close it. Right. And yeah, that type of self awareness, self criticism, it's humbling. And a lot of people could, people could do it more. [00:59:37] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's going to serve you in life. [00:59:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:59:40] Speaker B: You know, I mean, you're still, you're your 20s, you're, you know, I mean, I'm only in my 30s. We're always constantly learning. But when you have the ability to like go through something like that and be honest with yourself, like, okay, I didn't do good enough, I made a mistake here and there. And then you, can you, you're going to translate that into other areas of your life. It's not just going to be bodybuilding, it's going to be your work, it's going to be your relationships, it's going to Be just your overall, you know, mentality. So, Yeah, I mean, look, this is, I guess, practice for life. [01:00:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:13] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [01:00:14] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:00:14] Speaker B: To say the least. [01:00:15] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I will still be working out for sure. [01:00:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:19] Speaker A: Because I've always been working out every day and. Sure. My YouTube now I do videos. [01:00:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:25] Speaker A: Of my gym sessions. [01:00:26] Speaker B: Tell me about that. What's, what's, what's your goal with that, man? I mean, I see you at the gym, you've got your. [01:00:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:30] Speaker B: Your tripod. You're crushing it. I see you on YouTube. I love it. [01:00:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:33] Speaker B: Love that. Is that something that you want to do for a career or you just kind of documenting your life and having fun with it? [01:00:38] Speaker A: Would be nice as a career. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't. Unless it becomes so big that it is time consuming enough to take me all day. Sure. I, I think I would like to keep it as a side hobby just so that I can pursue other, other things, but as a career, that, that sounds nice. I would, I do it regardless of the money. I'm okay to put money into it and not really get money back. That's never been. The goal is, oh, I want to make a YouTube channel to make money. Because then this is not what I would do. No, I would do something else to make money. But to have it be self sustaining at a minimum would be really cool. The YouTube channel started when I was about a year ish out or maybe even six or seven months out from my injury. And. [01:01:27] Speaker B: You started the channel before your injury? [01:01:30] Speaker A: Six months after. Sorry, like out like after. [01:01:32] Speaker B: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. [01:01:34] Speaker A: And so like a quick timeline is I got injured, I went back to university prior to getting injured. I had secured an internship. [01:01:44] Speaker B: Okay. [01:01:45] Speaker A: And they honored that, which they kind of legally have to. But you know, they were nice enough to kind of switch me around because I was supposed to be in a factory, but they put me in an engineering, like office building. [01:01:55] Speaker B: Okay. [01:01:56] Speaker A: And so I had that internship lined up. I was. And then I got injured and then I went back to university. I talked to the company and they said, don't worry, we're taking care of you. We're going to put you in the engineering building, not the factory, because I want to be safe. And then I was in Wisconsin for about eight or nine months during that internship. And then after that I didn't want to go back to university because it was winter and you know, the snow was terrible. So I did a study abroad in Australia. And then that was when Covid hit, and I stayed. They called me back, and I just said, no, I don't have anywhere to live. When I go back home, I'm staying here. [01:02:34] Speaker B: That's wild. [01:02:35] Speaker A: I made the most of it. It was actually really fun. I made a couple friends and everything, and. And I actually visited them recently, so still friends. And then after that, I went back to university, graduated, move out to Colorado. That's like, the. The whole timeline there. And give me a second. I forgot the problem I was making. What we're talking about. We're talking about. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I forgot to. To be honest. [01:03:02] Speaker A: I'll get there. I'll get there. [01:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:08] Speaker A: Oh, career stuff. Right, Right. Okay. Cut that part out. We'll cut it or keep it in. Who cares? [01:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:16] Speaker A: So when I was in Wisconsin doing my internship, I had a mentor at the company, and one of the things he told me, he knew another guy in a wheelchair who went to my same university. I was only in a wheelchair for six months. This guy, it wasn't a spinal cord injury. It was a little bit different. He had been in a wheelchair for, like, his whole life. And what my mentor told me, he said, I was going to introduce him to you, and maybe you could learn from him, but I think he should be learning from you, because at that point, I had already. One or two months after I got out of rehab, I went to Germany. Like, I did a vacation there. I traveled a bunch. A lot of people won't go on a plane, let alone international travel, years, you know, after their injury. I did it months after, figured it all out, you know, but of course, I had my mom. I had my girlfriend at the time. Like, I had all these. All these people to give me support. I never felt alone or scared because I knew, we'll figure it out. And so something clicked in my head where I thought, well, when I was in rehab, I was doing all this stuff. There's a lot of people who don't get to go there because of insurance or the cost, and they do, like, two days of rehab in the hospital, and then they get sent home, and they don't know how to do anything. So I created the YouTube channel. It's called Wheelchair DNA. Cool name. [01:04:29] Speaker B: Love the name, dude. [01:04:30] Speaker A: I don't know where that came from, but I thought, yeah, that sounds good. [01:04:32] Speaker B: That's a good one. [01:04:33] Speaker A: So I created that channel, and I just started uploading videos. How to open a door. How do you sleep at night? Like, what are the. What are the protocols? What are the best practices? How do you put on pants, shoes, cooking, anything, getting in and out of the car, choosing a good car for getting the wheelchair in and out, and just all the kind of lifestyle videos that I could think of. Socks, putting on and off socks. What else? I. I even did a video getting in and out of an airplane. Okay, like not. Not a commercial airplane, but one of like the. Like a small Cessna where you got to sit up on the wing, curl your legs over, kind of flop back in and everything. So videos of just crazy transfers, crazy everything. Just everything I could do. Making videos of that. I was doing that for a long time, and then I started training for bodybuilding and I thought, I'll just do the video. The guy records in the gym, talks about life and stuff. [01:05:29] Speaker B: Love it. And. [01:05:30] Speaker A: And now that I'm done bodybuilding, I do have a little bit more time to get back into the more lifestyle wheelchair stuff. So doing travel, that's one of the biggest things, is if I can get my YouTube channel just to bring in enough money to pay for a flight in a hotel to go somewhere, I can do a whole Anthony Bourdain style. Accessible, like, hey, we are in Shanghai and let's check out the accessibility, the food, the culture, but from the perspective of the wheelchair. [01:06:04] Speaker B: Amazing. I love that idea, bro. Seriously, man. I mean, like Anthony Bourdain, his job is my dream job, truly. Yeah, I'm. I lived in France for a year, so I travel. I've traveled Europe, I've been to a handful of places, but traveling is absolutely, like, the lifeblood of, of me. I love it so much. So much fun. It's so much fun. Well, listen, man, thank you so much for being here, bro. I really, really appreciate you. Appreciate you being open and just. You are. You are an inspiration, man. You truly are. And you. I didn't know you before today's conversation, but I feel like I know who you are now, and you're just. You're very optimistic, you're very, you know, driven, and best of all, you've got a great sense of humor, and I love that, man. So I'd love to have you back. Appreciate your time today, man, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next. I think that this, this, this channel that you have is going to go places, and if you're the next Anthony Bourdain, that would be epic. [01:07:11] Speaker A: I can be just as sarcastic. [01:07:14] Speaker B: Love that. [01:07:14] Speaker A: Maybe, Maybe he was good. [01:07:16] Speaker B: What's. How can people find you? [01:07:19] Speaker A: Yeah, wheelchair DNA on YouTube. That's my main kind of wheelchair DNA thing. I have wheelchair DNA dot com. Sure, I'll. That's kind of the, you know, I can't make a video about it, but I gotta say it thing. So it's a blog, I guess. I hate saying blog, but I am a blogger. I guess we can say that where it's philosophy, it's a thought, it's a quick type where I don't need to make a video essay, I just type it out. So that's some information is there for sure. And then my Instagram is Cosmo can't die. Which I. You can tell I was less humble back then. I made that when I got injured. I thought, you can't kill me, you know. [01:08:01] Speaker B: No, I think that. I don't think that that's not you being humble. I think that that's just you showing off. Like, listen, I'm stronger than the adversity that I've been through. Yeah, I respect that. [01:08:12] Speaker A: With a pinch of cheekiness. I mean, I thought it was funny. [01:08:15] Speaker B: My man. Cheeky, too. Yes, it is. It is good. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. [01:08:19] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, yeah, to your point. I mean, that's. That's the mindset. Mindset to have. And I was going to say this earlier. I. Do you know we're doing a Midwest goodbye here, but. [01:08:28] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [01:08:29] Speaker A: I am from Detroit. I don't know if I ever mentioned that, but. No, yeah, I'm so. I'm from like the Detroit area. [01:08:33] Speaker B: Okay. [01:08:34] Speaker A: And so on. So the Midwest goodbye is like in my blood. [01:08:37] Speaker B: Okay. [01:08:38] Speaker A: And on Greek too. So you just keep talking. It never stops. But one of the things that I had in my head that I wanted to say earlier. [01:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. [01:08:46] Speaker A: The. The biggest kind of mindset thing that I have, especially when it comes to the hope to walk again. [01:08:52] Speaker B: It's. [01:08:52] Speaker A: It's not going to just, I wake up and I walk. Yeah, that's not how it's going to work. I mean, that would be great. Very low probability of that happening. And so the mindset is, I wake up, okay, I can't walk. Accept that for today. Move on, do something cool, live life. Most of life is go to the gym, go to work, chores, dishes, whatever. Most of everyone's life is kind of the same, but in the free time you have or the mindset you have while you're doing the same thing as everyone else, when you're at work, when you're at the gym, being open, being friendly, all that stuff. So it's all in the details. [01:09:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:26] Speaker A: About how you hold yourself, how you act the character of yourself, but the main big mindset is, I wake up, okay? This is the condition. I have to accept it. And once you accept it, you can move on to everything else. But if you get that, if it's stuck with you during the day, through the whole day, oh, I'm in a wheelchair today. Oh, this sucks. I can't move my legs today. And then of course, you're going to feel the same way tomorrow, because nothing's going to change, really. Like, not overnight. You wake up again the next day, oh, I'm still in a wheelchair. I thought something would happen for some reason, I don't know, that pimp thing. And it's just going to kill you. So the mindset of accept what it is today, accept what? You can't change that philosophy. And then it just opens up the world to, okay, well, these are the things I can't change, but what are the things that I can do? You know, so I have a bucket list of so many things that I want to do in life. And they're small, they're big, hot air balloon ride, ride a camel in the desert, you know, Indiana Jones style. Be a model for some company, right? I think, why not Nike, Calvin Klein, do, like, some underwear modeling. Why not just bucket list stuff? Whether it happens or not, some are smaller, some are bigger, right? Go to Mr. Olympia. Or even one is just do a road trip with my brother. Simple stuff. And when you stop thinking about, oh, these are the things I can't accept, and you get hung up on them, you don't move past it, and you don't think about, well, what can I still do? And then of those things I can still do, what do I really want to do? Or what do I really want to do and how can I make it work? Today, the technology of everything is so advanced. There's wheelchair sports, there's rugby, there's tennis, there's rock climbing, there's so many things. So anything someone wants to do if they're in a wheelchair, they can pretty much do it. Maybe you have to find the community, maybe you have to travel, but there's definitely a lot more opportunities today than there were even, let's say, 20 or 50 years ago. [01:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the world is experiencing an epidemic of the victim mentality. And you certainly have not embraced the victim mentality. Quite the opposite. And I think that you are just, you're, you're inspirational, to say the least. I've said that like six times on these podcasts, but I'm really really impressed with how you. You handle things, and I love the fact that you're. You're so driven towards new goals and new ambitions, and you have. You're full of life, and I love that, brother. [01:12:01] Speaker A: Love that I keep life fun. [01:12:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:03] Speaker A: Keep it fun. [01:12:03] Speaker B: Awesome. Let's end there, man. Thank you so much, Cosmo. I appreciate you. We're gonna have you back on here. I'm gonna plug all your stuff at the. The caption and everything. Okay? [01:12:10] Speaker A: Awesome. [01:12:11] Speaker B: All right, man. Thank you so much, brother. [01:12:12] Speaker A: Thank you. [01:12:12] Speaker B: Yes, sir.